Jordan Cooper

[haysdb]

Would Mike have made the Majors before now? Would he have been tough enough and worldly enough out of high school to survive? I find this argument that whether he was in the minors making a little bit of money and gaining some sort of "seniority," or growing up and maturing in college,that they both lead to the exact same place, it's a highly questionable argument. Are there statistics that track the eventual success of players who sign out of high school and those who are drafted but instead chose to go to college?

I spoke with Jim Thomas a couple of weeks ago and asked if could remember any WSU recruits who had signed out of high school going on to the majors, and he could remember only one. Maybe there are others and he just couldn't remember them, or maybe it's just a heck of a lot harder road.

Something else he said was he didn't know of a single one of those players, who signed out of high school, going on and getting a college degree. Again, there could be some he just didn't know about.

I wonder how many of those young men would say, 3 years later, that they made the right decision? Vs. those who went to college? Maybe it's a higher percentage than I imagine - I have no data. Let's take the example of a kid who takes that $300K out of high school and then is out looking for a job two years later? What did he end up with? Maybe a car? Taxes took a bunch of the $300K and then he spent some more of it to LIVE ON the next two years because a minor league salary hardly pays enough to eat. Maybe he walks away with $50K, he has only a high school education, he's 21 years old, and what are his prospects? I just think it's a HUGE gamble. What percentage of kids drafted out of high school are still playing professional baseball 5 years later? Even 3 years later?

[t7017s]

I think this kid will be here next year. From what i read in the article i feel pretty optimistic about it.

[SpanglerFan316]

The guy I was talking to on Friday, watching the first FSU-WSU game with me, signed right out of high school, only got as far as single A ball and has regretted not playing in college ever since.

[Rosewood]

Would Mike have made the Majors before now? Would he have been tough enough and worldly enough out of high school to survive? I find this argument that whether he was in the minors making a little bit of money and gaining some sort of "seniority," or growing up and maturing in college,that they both lead to the exact same place, it's a highly questionable argument. Are there statistics that track the eventual success of players who sign out of high school and those who are drafted but instead chose to go to college?

I spoke with Jim Thomas a couple of weeks ago and asked if could remember any WSU recruits who had signed out of high school going on to the majors, and he could remember only one. Maybe there are others and he just couldn't remember them, or maybe it's just a heck of a lot harder road.

Something else he said was he didn't know of a single one of those players, who signed out of high school, going on and getting a college degree. Again, there could be some he just didn't know about.

I wonder how many of those young men would say, 3 years later, that they made the right decision? Vs. those who went to college? Maybe it's a higher percentage than I imagine - I have no data. Let's take the example of a kid who takes that $300K out of high school and then is out looking for a job two years later? What did he end up with? Maybe a car? Taxes took a bunch of the $300K and then he spent some more of it to LIVE ON the next two years because a minor league salary hardly pays enough to eat. Maybe he walks away with $50K, he has only a high school education, he's 21 years old, and what are his prospects? I just think it's a HUGE gamble. What percentage of kids drafted out of high school are still playing professional baseball 5 years later? Even 3 years later?

Devil's advocate: If the kid has a good head on his shoulders in that scenario, that 50k should go a long ways in getting a college education. Being a little bit older and a few years of only a minor league salary should also put him more eligible for grant money. With the scholarship numbers what they are now and it being very rare for someone to get a true full ride in baseball, he has potential to come out ahead in the deal. Starting college at 21-22 isn't so bad, and even if he didn't make it in the pros, I'm sure he will kill in the intermurals!

I think the MLB needs to change the draft. The first thing that needs to happen is it needs to be pushed back to after the CWS. They can chill out for two weeks. I hate to say it, but they also need to stop drafting high school kids. The NBA doesn't do it anymore, the NFL doesn't do it, and it shouldn't be done with the MLB either.

[7hottamales]

[quote="Rosewood"]

I think the MLB needs to change the draft. The first thing that needs to happen is it needs to be pushed back to after the CWS. They can chill out for two weeks. I hate to say it, but they also need to stop drafting high school kids. The NBA doesn't do it anymore, the NFL doesn't do it, and it shouldn't be done with the MLB either.

What on earth does MLB have to gain from that?

[Rosewood]

MLB gains

1) By having the draft a few weeks later, you get a few more weeks to evaluate your picks. Knowing how a guy plays in Omaha / Supers should be pretty telling.
(That said, Shafer and Capra would probably be on the losing end if this were the case this year.)

2) By not having high school kids, you get rid of a big question mark for your organizations. So many high school kids get drafted, and then go to college or get drafted and aren't MLB material. Granted, there is a huuuuge farm system for the MLB to handle these crazy drafts. But something needs to be done here.

When you have losing teams like the Royals wasting their first round picks on guys who don't end up signing with them, it doesn't help teams like the Royals get any better. This helps maintain the haves and the have nots in MLB, something that needs to change.

Giving guys a few more years to develop in college means a better product on the field for MLB teams and fans. The out of high school phenoms are the exception, not the rule.

The only losers would be the few guys that would have gotten drafted high and then do go to college and get injured.

I'd say that if college baseball was mandatory, the scholarship limit would have to go up AND draft eligible would have to change to after the sophomore year.

[lostshocker]

by moving the draft back, MLB loses valuable negotiating time. once a player attends a college class he is now off limits. granted they dont get to talk to a lot of the top picks as they are playing in the CWS but there are others that they could be talking to.

by eliminating hs kids from the draft, do the "mid-major" schools lose ground on the bcs schools? where would most of those high picked high schoolers end up if they were forced to attend 1-2 yrs of college?

[rrshock]

by moving the draft back, MLB loses valuable negotiating time. once a player attends a college class he is now off limits. granted they dont get to talk to a lot of the top picks as they are playing in the CWS but there are others that they could be talking to.

by eliminating hs kids from the draft, do the "mid-major" schools lose ground on the bcs schools? where would most of those high picked high schoolers end up if they were forced to attend 1-2 yrs of college?

Sure some smaller schools would lose out, but some would gain too. There are always diamonds in the ruff with baseball players. WSU wouldn't be hurt at all by this either. It would probably make it seem rediculous that they were playing in the MVC though.

[boyshocker]

Plays for the Wichita Sluggers.

[7hottamales]

MLB gains

1) By having the draft a few weeks later, you get a few more weeks to evaluate your picks. Knowing how a guy plays in Omaha / Supers should be pretty telling.
(That said, Shafer and Capra would probably be on the losing end if this were the case this year.)

2) By not having high school kids, you get rid of a big question mark for your organizations. So many high school kids get drafted, and then go to college or get drafted and aren't MLB material. Granted, there is a huuuuge farm system for the MLB to handle these crazy drafts. But something needs to be done here.

When you have losing teams like the Royals wasting their first round picks on guys who don't end up signing with them, it doesn't help teams like the Royals get any better. This helps maintain the haves and the have nots in MLB, something that needs to change.

Giving guys a few more years to develop in college means a better product on the field for MLB teams and fans. The out of high school phenoms are the exception, not the rule.

The only losers would be the few guys that would have gotten drafted high and then do go to college and get injured.

I'd say that if college baseball was mandatory, the scholarship limit would have to go up AND draft eligible would have to change to after the sophomore year.

Your reasons are nice if you are a fan of college baseball, but they are not pragmatic from MLB's point of view.

They have 4+ years to evaluate their picks. I hardly think MLB views an extra 2 weeks for picks from 16 college rosters as more of an advantage than getting started with negotiations with the entire draft pool.

Besides results are only worth so much from aluminum bat baseball. They are focusing much more on tools.

I don't believe the Royals have "wasted" a first round pick on someone that wouldn't sign with them. In fact, there have been very few examples of 1st round drafts out of high school that didn't sign. I would bet there were more college 1st round picks that haven't signed in the last 10 years than high school.

The out of college phenoms are the exception not the rule.

I know you said that the scholarship limits would have to increase, but that's not the world we live in. Can you imagine what the big leagues would look like if you forced players from the US to go to college. The vast majority of the elite athletes would be playing football or basketball rather than baseball. Financially baseball wouldn't be much of an option.

MLB would rather almost all position prospects start with wood at 18 and would love to keep every projectable arm out of the system of abuse that is 95% of college baseball.

I can guarantee you that while elimnating high school kids from the draft would be great for college baseball, it will never be of interest to those with the $.

I don't understant this belief that college players are somehow better bets than high school guys. How many WSU players have been drafted over the last 15 years? How many have been value added at the big league level?

[7hottamales]

I already feel sorry for this kid. So much expectation, so little life experience. So glad he's not my son, grandson, brother, nephew, cousin, etc. The stage for failure has been pre-set.

Wow, I don't even know where to start with this...has our society seriously come to this point? Is is a bad thing to have talent, expectations, and options?

[7hottamales]

I wonder how many of those young men would say, 3 years later, that they made the right decision? Vs. those who went to college? Maybe it's a higher percentage than I imagine - I have no data. Let's take the example of a kid who takes that $300K out of high school and then is out looking for a job two years later? What did he end up with? Maybe a car? Taxes took a bunch of the $300K and then he spent some more of it to LIVE ON the next two years because a minor league salary hardly pays enough to eat. Maybe he walks away with $50K, he has only a high school education, he's 21 years old, and what are his prospects? I just think it's a HUGE gamble. What percentage of kids drafted out of high school are still playing professional baseball 5 years later? Even 3 years later?

Well the overwhelming majority of all players drafted will never achieve their goal. Given that, I'm sure many will have questions about the route they chose compared to the one they didn't.

I know that Shannon Carter attended college and played football after not making it in pro ball. So if he failed to get his degree, there's no reason to assume he would have at WSU. Also did Casey Blake's little brother not get his degree?

Going pro out of high school is better for some and going to college is better for others. It's completely dependent on the individual, their talent level, their maturity level, the physics of their body, the team they got drafted by, etc.

For us to presume to know what's better for any one of these guys is silly.

Most of these guys with a decision to make will have a provision in the contract that pays for their college education entirely. That's more than WSU can offfer...

I would never advise someone close to me to sign out of high school for less than about $350k, but once you get to that point, there becomes somewhat of an argument for it.

If a team spends that much of their draft budget on you, you will get a chance. You will be a prized prospect with effort placed on development.

[lostshocker]

MLB would rather almost all position prospects start with wood at 18 and would love to keep every projectable arm out of the system of abuse that is 95% of college baseball.

one would hope that that system of abuse would go almost completely away (if hs players were removed from the draft). the overuse of pitchers in the college ranks is one of the biggest negatives in college baseball.

[7hottamales]

MLB would rather almost all position prospects start with wood at 18 and would love to keep every projectable arm out of the system of abuse that is 95% of college baseball.

one would hope that that system of abuse would go almost completely away (if hs players were removed from the draft). the overuse of pitchers in the college ranks is one of the biggest negatives in college baseball.

Why would it go away? What new motivator would there be for college coaches to take care of arms that doesn't exist today?

[WSUwatcher]

Cooper

No doubt the Red Sox are big spenders. Still, they have 16 rounds worth of picks to spend money on whom they chose ahead of Cooper. I'd be surprised if he isn't a Shocker next year, and a guy who has a chance to make a lot more money three years from now.