GOOD PITCHING VS. GOOD HITTING

[William]

Re: KC!

Wow -- I'm here to say that KC has it right? What's up with that?

Actaully, not quite, becuase I don't think I'd agree that Shafer and Capra "choked." There's probably no word more overused in all of sports than choke, and Shafer in particular long ago established that he responds well to big games. As for Capra, he was unfortunately just doing what he had been doing for the previous six weeks or so, so his debacle was a disappointment, but sadly, no surprise.

Still, call it what you will, KC has the bottom line right: FSU's hitters took a smart approach and capitalized when WSU's pitchers were off their game, while the Shocker hitters went into one of their periodic mental funks and couldn't figure out how to do the same thing. So, unless Shafer and Capra were suddenly panicked by pitching in a mini-park -- which probably wasn't the case, considering that Shafer was okay in the undersized stadium at Stillwater, while the way Capra was going he'd have struggled with his command in Yellowstone -- he's absolutely right that the ballpark was not the Shockers' problem. They were off their game, both pitchers and hitters, which happens in baseball -- and when you're playing a short series you simply can't afford to have that happen.

Saying that the shockers were off their game infers that the shockers are as good or better than Florida state, Is that what you would have me believe?

[lostshocker]

that would appear to be a reasonable inference from that implication.

[The Mad Hatter]

Re: KC!

Wow -- I'm here to say that KC has it right? What's up with that?

Actaully, not quite, becuase I don't think I'd agree that Shafer and Capra "choked." There's probably no word more overused in all of sports than choke, and Shafer in particular long ago established that he responds well to big games. As for Capra, he was unfortunately just doing what he had been doing for the previous six weeks or so, so his debacle was a disappointment, but sadly, no surprise.

Still, call it what you will, KC has the bottom line right: FSU's hitters took a smart approach and capitalized when WSU's pitchers were off their game, while the Shocker hitters went into one of their periodic mental funks and couldn't figure out how to do the same thing. So, unless Shafer and Capra were suddenly panicked by pitching in a mini-park -- which probably wasn't the case, considering that Shafer was okay in the undersized stadium at Stillwater, while the way Capra was going he'd have struggled with his command in Yellowstone -- he's absolutely right that the ballpark was not the Shockers' problem. They were off their game, both pitchers and hitters, which happens in baseball -- and when you're playing a short series you simply can't afford to have that happen.

Saying that the shockers were off their game infers that the shockers are as good or better than Florida state, Is that what you would have me believe?

It doesn't necessarily infer that. It is possible for the performance by Shafer and Capra to be a combination of FSU's good hitting and them not having their best stuff, so saying that they didn't have their best stuff doesn't invalidate the effect of good hitting by FSU. Our pitchers not being "on their game" made winning nearly impossible, since they would have to be to keep FSU's hitting in check. There have been times that these guys have gotten wins without pitching their best, but that was unlikely to happen against FSU.

All this does not say that we would have won if they had been pitching better. It is possible to say that if Shafer and Capra had pitched better we would have had a better chance of winning without guaranteeing victory.

[shockandawe08]

The Mad Hatter,

I totally agree. I think we all knew that our pitchers would have to go at least 7 innings for us to have any chance and Shafer and Capra just didn't have it for whatever reason. Capra's performance, given his last few weeks, wasn't as much of a surprise to me, though. I remember his interview after pitching that one inning against OSU. He said his mindset coming in was, "fastball, fastball, fastball." I remember thinking then that we might be in trouble because that obviously played right into the FSU hitters' strengths. Oh, well. Live and learn. Que Sera, Sera.

[t7017s]

The Mad Hatter,

I totally agree. I think we all knew that our pitchers would have to go at least 7 innings for us to have any chance and Shafer and Capra just didn't have it for whatever reason. Capra's performance, given his last few weeks, wasn't as much of a surprise to me, though. I remember his interview after pitching that one inning against OSU. He said his mindset coming in was, "fastball, fastball, fastball." I remember thinking then that we might be in trouble because that obviously played right into the FSU hitters' strengths. Oh, well. Live and learn. Que Sera, Sera.

I thought Shafer pitched well and had good stuff. I think what killed him was trying to nibble the edges of the plate and get calls when he clearly wasnt getting any. At that point you have to realize your not going to get the call and throw something over the plate and trust your defense. But when he did they kept finding holes. Add in the heat and its not going to be a good outcome. Now Capra I think we all knew what was going to happen with him. I kept praying for a Banwart vs Arizona performance but it wasnt to be. I thought all through the end of the year that he had an elbow issue and probably needed surgery but I didnt want to say it on the board and let people run out of control with it. I just really never bought the whole thing about the draft being in his head as he has always been maybe the most relaxed under pressure. The way I saw him pitching he still had the fastball but lost his change and breaking stuff and I just figured it wasnt a shoulder issue that it had to be an elbow issue and he wasnt letting anyone in on it or the damage had been done and couldnt get any worse so just finish the year. I dunno but the fact is he still somehow even after the draft didnt have command of his change or breaking ball and I have a hard time believing it has anything to do with some sort of mental issue as he has never in his tenure at WSU had anything remotely close to that sort of trouble with command so obviously. But what the hell do I know he is a 21 year old kid and maybe it really was just the draft or personal issues or something. Just seemed really unusual to me the lack of command all of a sudden just over night practically.

[WSUwatcher]

Infer

William, the word is "imply," not "infer."

And no, it doesn't imply that at all. It simply means that Shafer, who is a proven and successful pitcher as well as a big-time prospect (hence his selection in the second round), had an off game. Whether FSU would have beaten him if he pitched up to his usual tournament standards is anyone's guess. They're an outstanding offensive team and play in great hitting conditions, in addition to which the Shockers were also off their game offensively, seemingly having spaced out offensively just as they did at times against much lesser opposition than FSU. So four runs might not have been enough for WSU even if Shafer had pitched better, and four was all they got. Who knows?

As for Capra -- whom you once inanely sort of defended against the charge of "draftitis," by the way, apparently because the coaches said it and it therefore must have been wrong and worth criticizing -- he was clearly way off his form, just as he had been for quite a while. But again, whether four runs would have been enough for WSU to win even if the old excellent Capra had suddenly reappeared in the manner of David Sanders a few years back, who knows?

I just wish one of the two had pitched up to the standards they had previously established, including against quality opposition (especially Shafer), so we could have found out whether four runs would have been enough. And I also wish the Shocker hitters had taken a more intelligent approach, as they had during their ten-game winning streak that ended in Tallahassee. But they didn't, so it doesn't matter now anyway -- and meanwhile, you're still an idiot and a blight upon this board.

Royal, do you have that Ignore function working yet?

[tripleshock]

and meanwhile, you're still an idiot and a blight upon this board.

Royal, do you have that Ignore function working yet?

Um.....do we really need an "Ignore function"?

If we had that, then how could we resort to name-calling anytime someone else says something we don't agree with?

Or perhaps I have misinferred your implicationary intent?

[shockandawe08]

Oops....clean up on aisle five. :cry:

[SubGod22]

It's not about not agreeing with someone. It's about some not wanting to read certain posters backhanded comments all the time. There have been a few times I wish we had an ignore funtion. I know I've used the one on VT on a few posters.

[William]

Re: Infer

William, the word is "imply," not "infer."

And no, it doesn't imply that at all. It simply means that Shafer, who is a proven and successful pitcher as well as a big-time prospect (hence his selection in the second round), had an off game. Whether FSU would have beaten him if he pitched up to his usual tournament standards is anyone's guess. They're an outstanding offensive team and play in great hitting conditions, in addition to which the Shockers were also off their game offensively, seemingly having spaced out offensively just as they did at times against much lesser opposition than FSU. So four runs might not have been enough for WSU even if Shafer had pitched better, and four was all they got. Who knows?

As for Capra -- whom you once inanely sort of defended against the charge of "draftitis," by the way, apparently because the coaches said it and it therefore must have been wrong and worth criticizing -- he was clearly way off his form, just as he had been for quite a while. But again, whether four runs would have been enough for WSU to win even if the old excellent Capra had suddenly reappeared in the manner of David Sanders a few years back, who knows?

I just wish one of the two had pitched up to the standards they had previously established, including against quality opposition (especially Shafer), so we could have found out whether four runs would have been enough. And I also wish the Shocker hitters had taken a more intelligent approach, as they had during their ten-game winning streak that ended in Tallahassee. But they didn't, so it doesn't matter now anyway -- and meanwhile, you're still an idiot and a blight upon this board.

Royal, do you have that Ignore function working yet?

Sorry I blew up, I now understand where you are coming from, You believe as I do that If ifs and buts were candies and nuts, that we all would have a merry christmas. My apologies

[shockandawe08]

SubGod22,

This is why my guest bed is so uncomfortable. It prevents those pesky visitors from overstaying their welcome. ;-)

So....what does everyone think of Dusty's chance of making the roster for the U.S. National team? I know they're going to cut it from 36 to 22 on the 24th.

[t7017s]

Well it sounds like they have moved him all over the infield and played him at 2nd, 3rd, and ss. I think I read that they had shortstop locked up by a guy hitting .390 so if he makes the team my guess would be its as a utility guy that can back up any of the infield and maybe even toss a little relief. Lets face it I'm sure he could be a great outfielder to if they chose to try that. Kid is a great and I mean great athlete with all sorts of tools. I would keep him if I was them but Im not so who knows. I think in the end they have to trim the team to 22 players I think and thats a pretty thin amount if you think about it. Sure its not a full season of baseball per say and I don't know how many games they play and really how often a week so 22 may be fine.

[shockandawe08]

I read where he's working on switch-hitting. Maybe he should learn to switch pitch....it's really big right now. lol. Seriously, the guy's a competitor and he's hungry. Any team could do worse.

[Zardoz]

Dusty makes great plays, he also blows easy plays, I don't know if he loses concentration or what but he needs to make all the plays. I've seen him make plays worthy of a Gold Glove major leaguer and then just flat out blow a play that damn near anybody could make. Dusty seems to strike out too much, he has trouble with the breaking ball at times, this will improve with time. I just think he needs another year of seasoning to improve on the things he doesn't do well at this time.

[shockandawe08]

Zardoz,


You are spot-on with your appraisal of Dusty. I was really impressed with him in the fall, but by the end of the season I never knew who was going to show up. I don't know if he's one of the soon-to-be marrieds on the team, for example, or if there's anything externally that may be influencing him. That's part of what drew me to him, though, like Forest Gump's box of chocolates...you never knew what you were going to get. lol.