Should Gene retire at the end of the season?

[shocker3]

As I posted on another thread...

Wichita State should drop baseball like N. Iowa plans to do. They can maybe restart it up in a couple years and attract a descent coach with the mediocre facilities we have. Then, our expectations may be taken down a notch.

Until then, we find ourselves surrounded by people with attitudes that they find so repulsive in Lawrence. "Holier than thou, better than everyone else", and the expectation that our team of young men that range in age from 18-23 should magically become one cohesive unit, regardless of who each one is.

Some call me a homer because I defend the team. I disagree. Defending your team against others is called being a fan. Some people who blast them to pieces for not living up to expectations that have been set by prior "GREAT" players say they are a realist. You are not. You are an ####.

You won't find many people talking about hosting, or seeding much over the next couple weeks. What we should be talking about is what we CAN do to support our team through the bad as we do the good.

Good points! :wsu_posters:

[1972Shocker]

I can't really say I am a big Gene Stephenson fan, although I have great respect for what he has been able to accomplish and sustain at Wichita State.

The only reason Gene will not be the Coach next year is if he decides he has had enough (which I doubt will be the case) or a non-baseball issue forces his hand or Beggs/Sextons hand (again probably a long-shot).

Regardless of what I think of Gene personally and/or professionally, I believe the man has EARNED the right to have a down year everty now and then (and this year has been frustrating and disappointing, although not sure I would classify it as a down year) and he has EARNED the right to leave on his own terms assuming he can continue to recruit quality young men, represent the University and Community with class on and off the field (assuming current off the field issue is resolved favorably) and fields teams that a consistent contenders and participants in post-season play.

I don't believe he will be fired based on on-the-field performance. At least not at this point in time or in the near future.

Next year (perhaps next couple of years) looks to be very challenging. It will be interesting to see if Gene and staff are up to the challenge.

[91 mascot]

wsu

This program needs new blood and a new direction. Nobody earns the right to build something so great - that they can run it into the ground (JoePa is an example) - The expectations from this town and fans - dictate that we have a coach tha thas a chip on his shoulder - the beauty of the old WSU teams was that their speed killed and they had people of hitting 10-20 home runs. I just think if Gene stays - then JT has to go - something has to be shaken up. We all love what these coaches have done - but just think what a new up and coming coach could do. We have all these fans just waiting to explode - right now everyone is ready to implode.

[Denny Crane]

I wouldn't keep bumping this thread if there wasn't debate from both sides.

[Zardoz]

If it ain't broke don't fix it! Remember back several years ago when Shocker Basketball had a .500 record in basketball and we threw Gene Smithson under the bus and brought in Eddie Fogler? Folger had a couple of good years with mostly Smithson recruits and then bolted leaving WSU basketball in shambles for around 20 years. Do you really want that for WSU baseball? A team Gene brought back from the dead to year in and year out a top 20 team.

If you guys manage to force Gene out somehow I am no longer a WSU fan. Baseball, Basketball, volleyball, bowling, nothing. You people make me sick. Nothing has been proved and yet you want to throw Gene under the bus. If it happens we can watch WSU struggle to make the MVC tourney. Not me I'll be through.

[shockfan89]

This is a valid question with valid points to be made by both sides of the argument. To summarily dismiss it one way or another is silly.

Then it is valid to ask if Turgeon should have been forced out had he not resigned to go to A&M. We are one year removed from the equivalent of a sweet 16 run in baseball and we are still a top 15-20 team winning our conference and 38-15 overall. The basketball team ended up barely above .500 for the year and below .500 in the conference.

[7hottamales]

This is a valid question with valid points to be made by both sides of the argument. To summarily dismiss it one way or another is silly.

Then it is valid to ask if Turgeon should have been forced out had he not resigned to go to A&M. We are one year removed from the equivalent of a sweet 16 run in baseball and we are still a top 15-20 team winning our conference and 38-15 overall. The basketball team ended up barely above .500 for the year and below .500 in the conference.

...and we could still go on a sweet 16 run this year. The point is that many believe the program has slipped and something different could bring it to a higher level consistently. Some don't. That's why there is discussion.

Obviously it probably wasn't valid to ask the question with Turgeon because no one did and no 6 page threads developed between reasonable passionate folks.

If you honestly can't see the how the two situations are apples and oranges, I'm not sure how to help you.

[7hottamales]

If you guys manage to force Gene out somehow I am no longer a WSU fan. Baseball, Basketball, volleyball, bowling, nothing. You people make me sick. Nothing has been proved and yet you want to throw Gene under the bus. If it happens we can watch WSU struggle to make the MVC tourney. Not me I'll be through.

So you are the interesting case of a "fan" that is a bigger fan of a person than the team, the athletic department, or the school.

Did you go to WSU? ...not that you have to be an grad to be a true fan, but I have a difficult time seeing an grad of an allegiance to a particular employee over the team or school.

[shockfan89]

They are apples and oranges. Gene has accomplished so much more than Turgeon they really can't even be compared.

We are playing terrible baseball right now and still ranked as one of the top teams in the country. We have been hit with injuries and illness and haven't been the same since. You might argue that the competition has improved, but I am not even sure that is valid? We are losing to way worse teams now than we were beating earlier in the year so it doesn't have much to do with the competition. We are just playing bad baseball and in a funk.

Has the program slipped? Sure it has. Name one powerhouse baseball program from the 80's and 90's that hasn't. Most of them have gone through very bad seasons and we have NEVER even come close to a bad season. Is the program still better with Gene than it could be with any other coach? Most likely.

Does our skid have something to do with the off field issues this year? Maybe so, but we had a stretch of very bad baseball last year so I think that is really grasping. Now if this continues for two more years and we have a losing season or two I would totally agree with you.

I think maybe it would be wise to see what this coaching staff can do with a more level playing field in college baseball now that the transfer rules have changed and there is a uniform starting date. This staff has accomplished this much going up hill all these years, I think they at least deserve 3 or 4 more to see what they can do with the changes taking place.

[91 mascot]

3 or 4 more years

I am not sure 3 or 4 more years would be the right decision - but I agree that after last years sweet 16 run - and being a ranked team most of the year - there needs to be consideration given to who built the program. If WSU could get a guy like David Chadd - then maybe I would go a new direction. If it is just a up and comer from some small eastern school - then I would give Gene the benefit of the doubt. I think this coaching staff will be on the hot seat if we haven't improved by this time next year - which could be difficult with the returning players for next year.

[William]

This talk about letting Gene go is just burning daylight, nobody is going to fire Gene unless it is for off the field issues.

The guy that I feel must go, who is loved by all shocker fans, but is unfortunately the only coaching variable separating the great shocker teams and the mediocre ones is JT. Can anyone point to what he brings to the party. The teams hit better and played with more fire with Hibbs and Chadd. I believe Genes days of being that guy are long gone, but as the captain of the ship, he must have the right assistants teaching and recruiting to be successful.

One other point, Gene gets all the credit for building this program from scratch, and he was indeed the catalyst and nuts and bolts of it , but let's not forget without the support of the fans and other large donors this deal would never have gotten of the ground and flourished for 30 years. So to say that shocker fan needs to sit down shut up and take this is rediculous because this is just as much our program as it is Genes.

[rrshock]

I think maybe it would be wise to see what this coaching staff can do with a more level playing field in college baseball now that the transfer rules have changed and there is a uniform starting date. This staff has accomplished this much going up hill all these years, I think they at least deserve 3 or 4 more to see what they can do with the changes taking place.

Honestly, I believe WSU has benefited from the transfer rule with the way it was in the past. This new rule will more than likely hurt WSU more than it helps. Players will be less likely to transfer with having to sit out a year, so WSU won't be able to pick up a good transfer every now and then like it did.

And the uniform start date also isn't to WSU's benefit either. For many years, the Shockers would go to Hawaii or down south and start playing before the start date now. This has only lead to more midweek games and this is what has beaten down the pitching staff and the whole team for that matter. WSU used to be able to rely on those weekend guys more for starts because they were playing more weekends. Now they get their brains bashed in by teams during the midweek that light up our midweek starters.

And I also agree with those that say if Gene is leaving that someone else on the staff needs to be changed. Ultimately it all comes down on Gene, but he also has the ability to find another coach that teaches players how to hit. With the serious lack of hitting this season and even some of last season, this area needs to see something done.

[WSUwatcher]

Dismissing

This is a valid question with valid points to be made by both sides of the argument. To summarily dismiss it one way or another is silly.

Well, 7hot, one thing that can be summarily dismissed is the idea that Gene would consider retiring voluntarily. As long as the career victories list shows Garrido #1 and Gene #2, and the old Zenmaster is still coaching, you can take it to the bank that Gene will not leave of his own volition.

As for Jim Thomas, however, you can mark me down on the side of those who can't wait to see him move on.

[shox1989]

Re: wsu

This program needs new blood and a new direction. Nobody earns the right to build something so great - that they can run it into the ground (JoePa is an example) - ......something has to be shaken up. We all love what these coaches have done - but just think what a new up and coming coach could do........

Lose. We saw what the basketball team did, we don't need the same thing for baseball.

Gene has never won fewer than 40 games in a season. I have a hard time believing that any new coach can match that record.

This whole discussion is totally ridiculous.

[7hottamales]

Re: wsu

This program needs new blood and a new direction. Nobody earns the right to build something so great - that they can run it into the ground (JoePa is an example) - ......something has to be shaken up. We all love what these coaches have done - but just think what a new up and coming coach could do........

Lose. We saw what the basketball team did, we don't need the same thing for baseball.

Gene has never won fewer than 40 games in a season. I have a hard time believing that any new coach can match that record.

This whole discussion is totally ridiculous.

I'd say we are maybe 50/50 to win 40 next year. Of course we can schedule wins, but next year's team will definitely have more questions surrounding it coming in than any team I can remember.