Should Gene retire at the end of the season?

[William]

If you have an argument pointing to Jts success, make it.... if not you are engaging in a fruitless endeavor.

[SHOCKvalue]

This debate has devolved too much at this point.

The concept is simple, there is a night and day correlation between the Hibb's years, the Thomas years, and offensive production. Statistical anomalies like the 1998 season and certain odd tidbits from last year don't prove otherwise.

I'm not saying with 100% certainty that JT is the root issue here (although for the most part that is my personal take), but the offensive stats are there to clearly expose the point.

There's my mail, and I'll pick it up from the yard myself.

[DaShox]

Ricky... :D


This endeavor has never been to show JT's success or lack thereof. The purpose was to present a balanced view of the facts -- not just those the "piling on lynch mob" wanted others to see and hear.

Have you noticed how the lynch mob quickly says "JT's 93 CWS doesn't count". "1998 is an abberation". Of course it doesn't count. Of course it's an abberation. Much like the three year old who changes the rules during the game to his liking.

"To repeat what others have said requires education. To challenge it requires brains". -- Mary Pettibone Poole

[ShockerFever]

I think you need to read your signature.. because you're ironically the walking definition of somebody that has a big, enormous ego hanging in your way. You've never countered any opposing viewpoints. All you do is quote them and ramble on about some other irrelevant quote about them.

It's pretty simple and it's been explained to you by both sides. If you're all about the 'facts', then compare the statistics (ranks) of the Hibb years vs. the Thomas years, instead of picking out little tidbits that try and prove your lame argument. It really is that easy, but you must've realized a long time ago that if you do that, that your point will be proven wrong... and your ego certainly couldn't handle that.

[SHOCKvalue]

DaShox, with respect to this thread, you're really sort of like a defense attorney.

The who, when, where, and why are all in the prosecutions court- but the defense still has to look like they're trying.

[ShockerFever]

Ricky hit the nail on the head.

Case closed.

[DaShox]

Page 7:

By no means am I defending, but it appears the easiest target is JT.

If my goal was to show JT's success, yes I would be a defense attorney. Showing his success was the path to the goal. But, it was never the goal.

Think more like Ed Bradley and 60 Minutes.

[William]

DaShox, with respect to this thread, you're really sort of like a defense attorney.

The who, when, where, and why are all in the prosecutions court- but the defense still has to look like they're trying.

Preach on brother!

[DaShox]

From the movie "The General's Daughter"

Travolta: So, what department do you work in?"

Generals daughter: Psychology

Travolta: What do you teach?

Generals daughter: Basically, we **** with people's minds.

[KC Shox]

Should Gene retire? The answer is HELLZ NO! However, he should take some time to do a little introspection and evaluate the type of players he brings into the program. Myself, I think he is not diversifying the program's portfolio. Too many atheletes who can't hit. Recruit the atheletes in the key defensive positions and get the mashers who can hit. Time to change the gameplan Gene.

[shox7]

Guys,

Before last nights game I took time to look at the list of All-American's on the plaque in front of Eck stadium. For over 20 years we averaged 4 All-American's per year. The last 10 years we have averaged only two per year. Any coach is only as good as the talent he is recruiting. We aren't getting or developing as many A-A's as we once were. That was really an eye opener for me. I thought our talent was down, but I never thought about a 50% drop in A-A's. My guess is there are multiple reason why, but this is one big reason we aren't the same team as we were in the 80's and 90's. It might be worth someone better than me looking at MVC POY's and all league as well to see if a similar pattern holds true. If you are at the Eck this weekend take a little at the list of A-A's to see if you agree.

[moshock]

Guys, there is another level that WSU could be at besides better. I think that Gene, Brent, and JT should go out on their own terms.

Although we haven't necessarily played liked it lately,we are still considered a national powerhouse. There are alot of teams that aren't what they were in the 80's and 90's....LSU, Miami, etc. Like us, they are still considered contenders but haven't won it all in a while.

Being stuck here in Springfield, the local talk radio guys always try to compare the Bears to us even though they have been to the CWS more recently than we have. Beleive me, WSU is the team to beat in the Valley.
I had to laugh at a comment made "Even WSU's pitching coach has his own radio show". I'm not positive but I don't think that MSU's Head Coach has his own show. Fans who are crying about the level of play at WSU need to come live in Springfield for a while. I have no desire to watch the Bears and they are pretty good this year. (BTW, I listen to every WSU game via the internet)

If you notice, most of WSU's players are local and a few regional. I went to last years Arkansas game and their team had more of a nationwide base. I love watching our local boys kick butt however unless we really get outside the region, we are only going to be as good as what we can recruit locally / regionally. I think GS, BK, and JT have done a great job using local talent. The competiveness at West Urban is all because we have such a great program at WSU. 90 % of those kids want to be Shockers.

Is Gene predictable ? Yes. Is he "old school" ? Yes. Does he play mind games with our players ? Yes. Is he a winner ? Absolutely. If it weren't for GS & BK especially, we would be like the rest of the ho-hum Valley teams with alot of empty seats.

I'm not ready to throw any of them under the bus. Next year will definitly be a rebuilding year. We are losing the majority of our experienced pitchers and position players. Having said all of that, it wouldn't surprise me to see Gene retire at the end of the season.

:wsu_posters:

[DaShox]

"I saw the ball well (Saturday) he said. "ive been working out a lot with (assistant coach Jim Thomas) on the fundamental stuff and just coming out relaxing."

-- Kevin Hall

[ShockerFever]

"I saw the ball well (Saturday) he said. "ive been working out a lot with (assistant coach Jim Thomas) on the fundamental stuff and just coming out relaxing."

-- Kevin Hall

You have problems understanding and comprehending the word 'consistency', and grasping one-time tidbits.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you didn't get good grades in debate class.

[SpanglerFan316]

Guys, there is another level that WSU could be at besides better. I think that Gene, Brent, and JT should go out on their own terms.

Although we haven't necessarily played liked it lately,we are still considered a national powerhouse. There are alot of teams that aren't what they were in the 80's and 90's....LSU, Miami, etc. Like us, they are still considered contenders but haven't won it all in a while.

Being stuck here in Springfield, the local talk radio guys always try to compare the Bears to us even though they have been to the CWS more recently than we have. Beleive me, WSU is the team to beat in the Valley.
I had to laugh at a comment made "Even WSU's pitching coach has his own radio show". I'm not positive but I don't think that MSU's Head Coach has his own show. Fans who are crying about the level of play at WSU need to come live in Springfield for a while. I have no desire to watch the Bears and they are pretty good this year. (BTW, I listen to every WSU game via the internet)

If you notice, most of WSU's players are local and a few regional. I went to last years Arkansas game and their team had more of a nationwide base. I love watching our local boys kick butt however unless we really get outside the region, we are only going to be as good as what we can recruit locally / regionally. I think GS, BK, and JT have done a great job using local talent. The competiveness at West Urban is all because we have such a great program at WSU. 90 % of those kids want to be Shockers.

Is Gene predictable ? Yes. Is he "old school" ? Yes. Does he play mind games with our players ? Yes. Is he a winner ? Absolutely. If it weren't for GS & BK especially, we would be like the rest of the ho-hum Valley teams with alot of empty seats.

I'm not ready to throw any of them under the bus. Next year will definitly be a rebuilding year. We are losing the majority of our experienced pitchers and position players. Having said all of that, it wouldn't surprise me to see Gene retire at the end of the season.

:wsu_posters:

A great post. I don't want Gene or Brent to retire for at least ten years!! As for JT, Idon't know. I think our batting has been weak for a long time. Whose fault is that? I don't know.