WSU vs SIU - Game 2

[RoyalShock]

royal, I can understand your thinking, and that's where umpires judgement comes in. Let the play dictate whether the runner is safe tonight. The way it's explained to me, on a close play at first, if the defense makes a great play, then bang the runner out, because everybody wants that call and wants their defense rewarded. But if the fielder kicks the ball around, bobbles it, and the runner is busting hard down the line, bang bang, give it to the runner, because the defense lost their chance for an out by fieleding the ball cleanly.

Now, in my opinion, this is only on a bang bang play, where like you said, it's extremely hard to tell whether the runners foot hit the bag first, or if the ball went into the first basemans glove first. Those are tough calls.

However, some umpires take it to the extreme, considering it a bang bang play even when the runner is a half step or a step past the bag. My personal opinion is even though the fielder may have made a play worthy of ESPN webgems, if the runner has both feet past the first base bag, then he's obviously safe, and it's not a bang bang play. We can argue this all you want, i'm just telling you my philosophy on how this particular play is called.

The perspective you mention in your first paragraph creates the situation in your last paragraph. Like hays and SF said, taking anything into account beyond "did the ball beat the runner" opens the door for all kinds of "judgement", resulting in the slippery slope.

It seems to me the most consistent way to umpire would be to, as ShockRef likes to say, see what you call and call what you see (paraphrased). If you can't conclude that the throw beat the runner, then the runner is safe. If the pitcher hit his spot perfectly, but didn't cross the plate between the knees and belt, it's a ball.

Even if the fielder ripped off his glove arm and held it out with his throwing arm to make an amazing catch as blood pours from his shoulder, unless the throw beat the runner, he's safe.

[shockerfanmas]

royal, I can agree with you there totally. Unfortunately, if an umpire wants to move up to a higher level, then he'll umpire the way it has been for several years. If I call a guy safe on a bang bang play after the fielder has, as you mentioned, broken his arm diving for a ball and gunning it to first, then I guarantee 95% of umpires D1 college baseball level and higher will rip me a new one. Yes, the easiest way on a bang bang play is if you're not sure, the runner is safe, unfortunately that's not the way it works.

An example, I called a guy safe in a high school JV game a couple years ago after the shortstop dove behind second base and gun it to first from his knees. I had the runner just beating the throw to first so I called him safe. I got ripped by all 3 coaches of the defensive team, and their reasoning was exactly as most umpires is: the shortstop made the play of the year.

Right or wrong, from now on I will call it the way the other umpires call it, even if I don't necessarily totally agree with it. By the way, Royal, is there a way to ignore Shockerfever. His little 12 year old comments are getting tiresome, and I would prefer to just ignore him rather than get into a battle of words with him.

[RoyalShock]

I can see your dilemma. Though it still doesn't justify ignoring the fundamental rules of the game, IMO.

As for an ignore feature, that is not available in the current setup. There is a very good chance that will change this summer.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I'm thinking since Coach Jans isn't on here to keep some people apart, an ignore button could be useful.

I still love that pic. Coach would have beat him down!!

[ShockerFever]

shockerfanmas, I'll stop bothering you. Or if you wanted to, you could just skip right past anything I post and ignore it that way. No one's forcing you to stop and read it.

I will say this: Making an unfair call based on some guy's pre-call heroics just because you can't stand the heat from a pressuring coaching staff is rather lame. Maybe the umpires should take a stance and say what is right instead of catering to a coaching staff that insists on making the wrong judgment call.

Grow a backbone first and then maybe you'll have a chance to move up from the little leagues.