Brent Kemnitz

[1972Shocker]

Not sure what is going on with Brent but the pitching has been woeful over the past two years. Perhaps the talent simply is not there to work with.

I do have a question about Brent. One can not deny that his overall record as a college pitching coach is outstanding. However, I am beginning to question whether his strength as a coach primarily lies in the mental aspects of pitching and perhaps not so much in the mechanical aspects. After all he made a CD on the mental apsects of pitching and he talks about that all the time. However, it doesn't seem like he talks much at all about the mechanical aspects of pitching or at list that is my perception.

I ask this because with a staff like we have this year who seem to have a big issue of command resulting in a lot of walks, wild pitches and being wild in the strike zone. Some, if not most of these issues, may be as much or more mechanical then they are mental.

Is Brent more of pitching psychologist than he is a teacher of pitching mechanics that perhaps has been masked in the past by the natural talent of the pitchers on past staffs?

6 or 7 years ago I took my grandson to the Holman Baseball Shed for private lessons from Brad Holman. I thought he was great at teaching proper mechanics and explaining why they are important and effective.

Brad and his older brother Brian pitched at Wichita North and both made to the major leagues. Younger brother Brent is the pitching coach at Bishop Carroll. Brad has beein a pitching coach in the Rangers system and this year is their bullpen coach for the big club.

http://www.kansas.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/bob-lutz/article46302950.html

I am just spit-balling here. I have no idea if any of this holds water or not. I know some think that Kemnitz and Butler are oil and water and that is the biggest issue that may be impacting Brent's effectiveness. Perhaps that is all there is to it.

[ShockTalk]

Another aspect is who is in control of what pitchers are recruited. Did Brent do most of the recruiting in the past, looking for qualities he valued in a pitcher including work ethic and being coachable? Is Butler now demanding the type of pitchers (size and power) he wants, damn what Brent values, including how coachable the player is?

We all know the value of a great work ethic and being coachable when it comes to our basketball team and how they can play with and beat "more talented" teams.

One more point is the overall past success of offense that is put on the field and this goes back into Gene's era. Our ranking in offense among other college teams began to decline around 15 years ago. Nevertheless, early in that period, Brent still had top notch staffs. Several of us mentioned years ago that if the offensive production continued to decline, sooner or later, and regardless of Brent, quality pitching and its depth as a staff would start suffering.

For the last 8 years, WSU has been nothing more than another good (at best) Valley team. That will generally get you nothing better than Valley-like players. This is why I put so much importance in WSU being the best Valley team. We don't always have to win the Valley, but most always be the regular season champ or Valley tourney champ, along with being an at-large level team most years. It was important to get to regionals, sometimes by at-large status to keep the level of recruits at a higher level.

[DUShock]

Based on comments made on the Todd Butler show, I believe the consensus of Shockernet is that HC(for now)TB does all of the recruiting.
PCBK is a mechanics coach for whom Butler brings in.

[WstateU]

PCBK is a mechanics coach for who Butler brings in.

[Ricardo del Rio]

I have said it before and I will say it again. You are gonna kill me some day.

[Ricardo del Rio]

This idea may have some affect on Shocker pitcher strength. Maybe or maybe not.

"Pitchers like to go (to universities), where the hitters are."

[1972Shocker]

This may be a little more accurate depiction of this year's pitching staff:

[THam]

Maybe Brent isn't the best mechanics guy. Its a moot point in my opinion. His remarkable consistency and success for 30 years, continuing even as the hitting and defense settled pretty firmly into mediocrity in Gene's final years, made Butler's job pretty damn easy in regards to improving the pitching staff. - 1. Stay out of Brent's way. 2. Bring in better hitters, which will elevate the pitching talent Brent is able to bring in. Him choosing to take the recruiting over and bring in a bunch of projects instead of pitchers is the evidence that has the most merit to me when considering the argument that he is incompetent as a head coach. It will be interesting to see whether he gives the reins back to Brent or brings in someone else. I can't see either one of them wanting to continue with the current arrangement considering the results.

[1972Shocker]

Bring in better hitters, which will elevate the pitching talent Brent is able to bring in.

Perhaps a bit of a silver lining is that the Shocks are leading the Valley in conference play with a 0.297 team BA. DBU is second at 0.282. This is with our younger guys leading the way.

[xazshox]

Pitching Situation

When HCTB first came to WSU, he said he was going to concentrate scholarship money on pitching! Brent has bemoaned the fact that last year was the 1st time the WSU pitching staff had a composite ERA of over 5 in the past 30 yrs. Perhaps it as just after Gene S arrived. I'm sure someone knows how far back that goes.

Late this spring, I read somewhere that BK was out of town on a recruiting trip. That may have led to the pitcher from AZ (my former state of residence) signing with WSU. However, I have no idea whether or not that is a singular event for Brent or if HCTB decided to get him more involved in recruiting pitchers.

[1972Shocker]

When HCTB first came to WSU, he said he was going to concentrate scholarship money on pitching! Brent has bemoaned the fact that last year was the 1st time the WSU pitching staff had a composite ERA of over 5 in the past 30 yrs. Perhaps it as just after Gene S arrived. I'm sure someone knows how far back that goes.

Late this spring, I read somewhere that BK was out of town on a recruiting trip. That may have led to the pitcher from AZ (my former state of residence) signing with WSU. However, I have no idea whether or not that is a singular event for Brent or if HCTB decided to get him more involved in recruiting pitchers.

I think Brent has missed several games this year reportedly due to being out on the recruiting trail. I do think Brent is a competitor and that he will do his best to get this situation turned around. Whether his hands are being tied in those efforts or not I could not say.

[XManCometh]

Brent can teach the mechanics and mental aspects of pitching all he wants, but if there isn't any talent to work with he can't really do much.

Honestly, we're falling off the deep end if we're beginning to blame Brent. Guy has a track record as good as the day is long. You don't just suddenly forget how to be a pitching coach in 2 years, and there's a zero percent chance the game has just "passed him by" in that amount of time as well.

[Shocker85]

I don't think anyone could B.S. his way through being a D1 coach with the level of success and longevity of Kemnitz by being only a masseur of brains. Lest we forget, they made the NCAA tournament 28 times and the College World Series 7 times in the Stephenson era with Kemnitz coaching pitchers. Unless of course someone else was coaching mechanics during all that time. Unlikely.

There were a whole lot of guys who came into the program as decent pitchers and who left as All-Americans.

I have said it before ... Brent didn't forget everything he knows about pitching over 2-3 years time. I don't think he is very engaged now, if at all.

I have no inside information.

[1972Shocker]

Brent can teach the mechanics and mental aspects of pitching all he wants, but if there isn't any talent to work with he can't really do much.

Honestly, we're falling off the deep end if we're beginning to blame Brent. Guy has a track record as good as the day is long. You don't just suddenly forget how to be a pitching coach in 2 years, and there's a zero percent chance the game has just "passed him by" in that amount of time as well.

That makes a lot of sense. So I guess the question is this fall off in the pitching the last couple years primarily a talent issue, as you suggest, or a lack of motivation by Brent due to some friction with Todd Butler as others have suggested. Perhaps it is a combination of both plus a few injuries to boot to compound the situation.