Fire Todd Butler

[ShockerFever]

Either Boatright is incompetent or we simply don't have the funds to make a change. I think it's the latter.

But, but, but Slow-Draw Boatright said money wan't an issue... LAST year.

[Ta Town Shocker]

There were plenty of ways around the financial issue. Many of which have already been discussed.

[Aargh]

The last time we had an AD who truly could not raise money to do what was needed, it was Lew Perkins. Instead of raising money to keep a football program running, it was easier just to axe the FB program and not have to go out and raise money for the athletic department.

There is one big difference. All the money people for baseball were Gene's guys. Gene did his own fund raising, so all the money contacts were Gene's contacts.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Weird. You posted on a Friday night at exactly the same time as myself and brought up the issue of money...

Get off my brainwave!!!


T


...:cool:

[C0|dB|00ded]

Literally the most depressing interview ever. Butler eye's are just begging for somebody to fire him.


T


...:cool:

I just realized something and had to rush to ShockerNet to share it with all my friends. I'm going to blow your minds...

I think Butler wanted to be fired after this year. I think he was hoping and praying for the early termination without cause bonus plus his remaining contracted salary. I think Butler is tired of getting his head kicked in every year (I swear I saw him mouth the word "uncle" in the KWCH interview). I think Butler has a chill assistant coaching gig lined up as we speak and was already packed and ready to go. I think ADDB actually spent most of the interview giving Butler a pep talk about next year because his department is too broke to pay for a replacement. That's right, I think The Boatster's biggest challenge to himself was to convince Butler to go hard next year without sounding desperate and devoid of any tangible threats.

This is the financial state our athletic department is in and it's not Darron's fault. Hell, he didn't ask for this job... it kind of just fell in his lap. He's overmatched and doing the best he can. He doesn't have it in him to go out and pull money from the boosters. The question for me now is this... who's responsible for not hiring a legitimate AD when Schaus left? Was that on our previous president? Someone has been running our department on the cheap. It could have a little to do with Marshall's massive salary. A good AD costs around $300-400K per.

Discuss.


T


...:cool:

[choida]

Hate to say it but I think mens basketball is the only thing that they want to spend significant money on... And I really hate to say that... Hope I'm wrong

[BostonWu]

Well this thread lives another year. What did the infamous EO thread grow to?

[SHOCKvalue]

Keep in mind, everyone doubted how Marshall would replace each class of Seniors that got better than the last.

For the love of all things holy you can’t be serious.

Marshall is legitimately in the top 10 of individuals currently active in his profession.

Butler has already been fired from some school named McNeese St from the same position he currently holds, and has a .500 record as a HC with a pretty massive sample size at this point.

[SHOCKvalue]

For everything that it is worth, and I apologize in advance since this news was pertinent to the shocknet community, but my colleague (local media writer) I spoke about in my last post said, off the record, that the 1PM meeting between ADDB and HCTB was a last ditch effort ultimatum, and he heard & shared with me that HCTB was going to be given another year to show a massive upswing in the program.

Mags was an accountant by trade and certainty the one who always did our family’s taxes so she would be elated to hear about the fiscal conservatism the Athletic department (and subsequent tax payers) are saving.

Said the reasoning behind the inaction stems from the terms of HCTB’s buyout agreement between the two parties. Apparently, he said that HCTBs lawyers insisted on a 500K buyout if the WSUAD where to terminate his contract, but next year, it would only be 250. That’s math even my boneheadedness can agree with.

He said that the university is hedging on the pending influx of NCAA money next year coming from basketball in March to afford the 250 payout. Needless to say, ADDB is shopping for head coaches and will have a perfect suiter for next year. I know this is hard to stomach but I think ADDB made the best fiscal decision he could pending this situation we’re in.

You realize that - oh - about half of the posters in this thread know exactly the terms of Butler’s buyout, right? That it’s public information, and common knowledge for anyone who halfway follows WSU baseball, right? And that your numbers don’t jive?

You remember that comedian who’s money line was... “here’s your sign”? Yeah, that.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

For the love of all things holy you can’t be serious.

Marshall is legitimately in the top 10 of individuals currently active in his profession.

Butler has already been fired from some school named McNeese St from the same position he currently holds, and has a .500 record as a HC with a pretty massive sample size at this point.

He was legitimately in the Top 10 when Murry Graduated?

So that is what we feel entitled to here?

I want WSU to be successful. We have a great group pf kids. But it seems there is no way to get anyone to realize College Baseball is a different world than College Basketball.

And I do agree that if a basketball coach isnt turning the needle by year 3, he should be gone. But that is a different game/world. Hell, Chris Lamb didnt have a winning record until year 5.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

I just realized something and had to rush to ShockerNet to share it with all my friends. I'm going to blow your minds...

I think Butler wanted to be fired after this year. I think he was hoping and praying for the early termination without cause bonus plus his remaining contracted salary. I think Butler is tired of getting his head kicked in every year (I swear I saw him mouth the word "uncle" in the KWCH interview). I think Butler has a chill assistant coaching gig lined up as we speak and was already packed and ready to go. I think ADDB actually spent most of the interview giving Butler a pep talk about next year because his department is too broke to pay for a replacement. That's right, I think The Boatster's biggest challenge to himself was to convince Butler to go hard next year without sounding desperate and devoid of any tangible threats.

This is the financial state our athletic department is in and it's not Darron's fault. Hell, he didn't ask for this job... it kind of just fell in his lap. He's overmatched and doing the best he can. He doesn't have it in him to go out and pull money from the boosters. The question for me now is this... who's responsible for not hiring a legitimate AD when Schaus left? Was that on our previous president? Someone has been running our department on the cheap. It could have a little to do with Marshall's massive salary. A good AD costs around $300-400K per.

Discuss.


T


...:cool:

Wow. Did you just throw the AD, School President, AND Gregg Marshall under the bus for the status of the baseball program?

LOL.

[Shockm]

And before anybody starts chirping about how tight the alumni base giving has been strung already... piss off.

Over 16 TRILLION (with a T) in wealth has been created over the last 7+ years in the markets. Shocker Nation is as rich as it has ever been.

Raising one million dollars through 30-40 of our biggest boosters would be achievable in an afternoon. I'd have done it myself for free had they asked.


T


...:cool:

The Athletic Department knows who is giving the big amounts. Too those donors, listening will happen.

As a side note to further emphasize my point, The KU President called up Booth, KU's biggest donor who has given Millions of dollars to the Athletic Department (including the Naismith rules sold for over a million dollars) and other Capital Projects at KU, prior to firing their AD. According to Booth, when he was asked about it by reporters, he said that it was a courtesy call by the new KU President, informing him on what he had ALREADY decided to do. LOL

Now that's funny.

[1972Shocker]

Hell, Chris Lamb didnt have a winning record until year 5.

Actually Chris Lamb, who took over a program in much worse shape and with substantially fewer resources and tradition than Todd Butler, went 18-13 in his 3rd year. That was the last time the Lady Shockers did not win at least 20 games. He finished 4th in the conference in the regular season. The Shockers have not finished lower than 3rd since that year.

In his 4th year he went 21-10 and 25-6 in his 5th year and won his 1st Valley regular season and Conference Tournament title and made his 1st NCAA Tournament.

So Lambo is not a real good comparison or barometer.

That is the biggest challenge of defending Todd Butler, finding tangible evidence to work with.

[ShockCrazy]

I always love when a poster completely makes up garbage is proven completely wrong and then avoids addressing the fact he was made a fool.

[1972Shocker]

I kind of feel for Todd Butler replacing a legendary and highly successful coach is not easy to do. Todd Butler would not be the 1st by a long shot to struggle with that. Gary Thompson found that out when he replaced Ralph Miller. Whoever eventually replaces Gregg Marshall and Chris Lamb is going to face the same pressure and elevated expectations.. Heck a couple of posters are already calling for ADDB to be fired before he even hires 3G's replacement. S ome of Gene's supporters were ready to string Todd Butler up the day he took the job although that was largely due to anger over Gene's termination and how it was handled even though Todd had nothing to do with that even though that was not on Todd.

That said anyone who takes one of these replace a legend jobs has to know this. And they have to know that the only way to they will be able to survive is to win and win at a high level or the fans will turn on them quickly and in some cases fiercely. Whether or not that is fair it is just the way the world works.

Todd's record simply is not acceptable especially for a program with the resources and tradition of Wichita State.

If as you say College baseball is a different world now and maybe we shoudn't expect to be as successful anymore than why did we even bother to replace Gene? Why have programs like Missouri State and Dallas Baptist in the Valley not only been able to keep up but have been able to flourish on a consistent basis.

I actually agree that expectations need to be tempered somewhat. We will not be revisiting the 80's and 90's. However, we can and should be doing better than what we have done under Todd Butler's leadership. Making sure we have the right person leading the program is, in fact, a key way we can support the players.

I don't know that the program will be able to take a step forward next year or not. I wouldn't bet much on that happening at this point. I would think though it is critical for Todd Bulter's future at Wichita State that they do continue to show improvement and not take a step back.

[ArtVandalay]

I'll tell you what, the fact of the matter is that WSU baseball is at a crossroads. ADDB has done a great job working to position Wichita State for the future by getting the move to the AAC and keeping coach Marshall happy, but he has performed poorly the last two baseball off-seasons.

The fact of the matter is, he never should have said last year retaining Todd Butler was not financially motivated. He messed up again with his interview yesterday by stumbling around and not supporting Butler while also not terminating him. Seems his public speaking is not his strong suit. We all know the money is not there and keeping Butler makes sense financially. In my opinion, he'll suffer through one more season next year before being shown the door.

So, should Shocker fans reassess their expectations for baseball due to the changing collegiate baseball landscape? The fact of the matter is that all programs are dealing with the same changing landscape. Wichita State is in solid shape with the resources available to compete year after year. We certainly may not be able to expect postseason play every year, but to be able to compete for that possibility each year seems reasonable. Next year, I don't anticipate the Shockers to compete at all for the postseason, in year 6. That's unacceptable, and that's just the matter of fact.

[DUShock]

The move to the AAC started under Sexton but yes, Boatright did a fine job pulling into port and docking the boat.

[Veritas]

Sexton didn't do crap to help get WSU into the AAC. Probably a reason Bardo sent him packing. That and the manner in which he handled fHCGS, and the WBB program. I'm not so sure The Boat helped either. Bardo was the driver.

[ShockerFever]

He was legitimately in the Top 10 when Murry Graduated?

So that is what we feel entitled to here?

I want WSU to be successful. We have a great group pf kids. But it seems there is no way to get anyone to realize College Baseball is a different world than College Basketball.

And I do agree that if a basketball coach isnt turning the needle by year 3, he should be gone. But that is a different game/world. Hell, Chris Lamb didnt have a winning record until year 5.

So let me get this straight. You think Todd Butler could potentially be on the same trend line as Gregg Marshall?

LMFAO.

This isn't year THREE. This is year FIVE. And soon to be year SIX. With his GREATEST team assembled ever that got us bottom 3rd conference finishes and ZERO post season.

You can keep playing the excuse game with regards to "how the game has changed" but WSU was still ahead of the 8-ball with tradition and facilities and support that made it still relevant in the college baseball landscape. If the RIGHT coach is in place, then WSU can be a relevant school in baseball. NO - not 1990's national power type relevant, but relevant enough to make a regional or two at least every 5 years. They now play in a much more attractive conference too.

I mean freaking Missouri State has made the regionals for a few years now. And they have zero tradition, zero fan support, and play in a mid-major conference. Why the **** are they making regionals and super regionals and getting freaking national seeds? Are you seriously saying we can't do any of this while Missouri freaking State can? That's because they have the right COACH in place.

I'm tired of seeing all these lame ass excuses for the baseball program. It's such a weak ass, low major mindset. It's literally the dumbest logic and yet keeps being beaten down in every other post.

[Downtown Shocker Brown]

As a person who isnt connected to the program, your opinion is invalid.

Sorry.

[ShockerFever]

As a person who is connected to the program (Ragin Cajun), you are an embarrassment.

And that's all you can come back me with? Because you can't refute my points. You're an utter joke.