Fire Todd Butler

[jdmee]

Respectfully, I am crystal clear, with certainty. Any painted picture about lack of willingness should be so suspect. Does that sound consistent in the personality of a person who dedicated their adult lifetime not only teaching young men to be champions WITH and OF character, massive national baseball and academic excellence? Gene's players led the nation in academic All-Americans at all levels of NCAA Baseball from 1982 ON, while becoming one of the very most successful programs in history. Do these achievements happen by accident?
Do those qualities seem consistent with what a Hall of Fame coach teaches about character? If for any reason a lack of willingness to be involved in baseball now does not make sense, what he with his teams built, your're on the right track.
I, too, am the first to apologize if I am wrong. About this, accurate.

Great but how does any of this relate to his unwillingness to work with the athletic department and the thought of us who believe he wanted to run his program his way without having to answer to the AD? You still have not given any details to counter those thoughts.

[J2210P]

Then why aren't Gene, et al, providing a substantiated counternarrative to the one established in the press? If that record is false, then no amount of calling Boatright a liar and bad guy will matter until the real story is out there. All I hear from Gene's supporters are, "if you knew the REAL story..." Why, in four years, has this real story not been made public? The bridge is clearly already burned, what advantage is withholding the truth? Gene's troops have no problem disparaging the administration. The only reasonable conclusion I can draw is that the basic facts are correct and Gene's supporters only want to "nibble the edge" of how things were handled by the University after the decision was made. If there is more to the story than that, it is on Gene or his surrogates to provide the story, as the administration's has gone relatively unchalleneged.

A character issue, a matter of truly whose character. Truths find their way.

[BOBB]

A character issue, a matter of truly whose character. Truths find their way.

OK, so until the truths find their way I must accept the administration's version as the basic facts. Regardless, Todd Butler sucks. Hopefully his replacement is competent and has a contract with sufficient incentive and enough outs for the University to make a change if necessary.

[molly jabali]

OK, so until the truths find their way I must accept the administration's version as the basic facts. Regardless, Todd Butler sucks. Hopefully his replacement is competent and has a contract with sufficient incentive and enough outs for the University to make a change if necessary.

THIS made me laugh and kind of applaud at the same time.

[Shockerman]

Regardless of one's position in the matter, I would hope that all WSU baseball fans could reasonably agree that the program is now a mess.

And I think it would further be reasonable to agree that it is disappointing that those with the tools to clean up the mess are apparently not interested in doing so.

Not going to defend Boatright per say but he has no choice but to double down on Butler. Right now he is trying to get the budget figured out for the AAC which he is going to have to beg donors for to get things to balance out. Baseball is screwed, he knows it, but he also knows pretty much exactly where we will be with it next year in regards to attendance, travel, schoraships, salaries etc. We don't have the cash to fire Butler and bring in a new guy and he doesn't want the headache. It would be much easier to reassign Butler next April if and when we tank out of the gate and begin to work on HCMS's very incentive based contract. If Butler is back in '19 though Shocker nation should and will have the pitchforks out. It is what it is, but we will have to wait it out.

[shockfan89_]

Not going to defend Boatright per say but he has no choice but to double down on Butler. Right now he is trying to get the budget figured out for the AAC which he is going to have to beg donors for to get things to balance out. Baseball is screwed, he knows it, but he also knows pretty much exactly where we will be with it next year in regards to attendance, travel, schoraships, salaries etc. We don't have the cash to fire Butler and bring in a new guy and he doesn't want the headache. It would be much easier to reassign Butler next April if and when we tank out of the gate and begin to work on HCMS's very incentive based contract. If Butler is back in '19 though Shocker nation should and will have the pitchforks out. It is what it is, but we will have to wait it out.

If the MS you are talking about is Standiford, we have enough money to fire HCTB, pay him his $340,000 next year, hire Standiford and his staff, and still pay less in baseball coaches salaries next year. That is where you lose me on no choice...

[Shockerman]

If the MS you are talking about is Standiford, we have enough money to fire HCTB, pay him his $340,000 next year, hire Standiford and his staff, and still pay less in baseball coaches salaries next year. That is where you lose me on no choice...

I guess I don't know, but how is Butler contract written? Wouldn't he be due the 1 million plus within x amount of time? As good as his contract is, I can't imagine it would any other way.

[shockfan89_]

I guess I don't know, but how is Butler contract written? Wouldn't he be due the 1 million plus within x amount of time? As good as his contract is, I can't imagine it would any other way.

I assumed that he would continue to get paid until the term of the contract expired, but the contract states he would receive the amount of the annual base salary for the remaining years of the contract. I assume you are right that would equate to a $1,020,000 payment.

But then his contract also states he would need to make a good faith effort to seek employment in order for remuneration. and "If Mr. Butler obtains new employment or other opportunities, ICAA's obligation to continue to pay liquidated damages will be reduced by the total compensation of other remuneration". How would that work if it was a lump sum payment at termination?

[RoyalShock]

If the MS you are talking about is Standiford, we have enough money to fire HCTB, pay him his $340,000 next year, hire Standiford and his staff, and still pay less in baseball coaches salaries next year. That is where you lose me on no choice...

I'm not sure how you continue to pay three coaches their current contractual salaries, bring in three more, and pay less. Am I missing something?

I assumed that he would continue to get paid until the term of the contract expired, but the contract states he would receive the amount of the annual base salary for the remaining years of the contract. I assume you are right that would equate to a $1,020,000 payment.

But then his contract also states he would need to make a good faith effort to seek employment in order for remuneration. and "If Mr. Butler obtains new employment or other opportunities, ICAA's obligation to continue to pay liquidated damages will be reduced by the total compensation of other remuneration". How would that work if it was a lump sum payment at termination?

He'll get an assistant coaching job for $1000 per year (or some ridiculously low amount) until his WSU contract expires, then his salary will jump to a commensurate amount for an assistant. Even if that shenanigan doesn't happen, what does an assistant D1 baseball coach make? 60-70k? It's not an amount to offset bringing in an entirely new coaching staff.

That said, I would still prefer a change. But I'll hold my nose another year, presuming the AAC move and a coaching change was mutually exclusive.

[shockfan89_]

Assistant coaches typically have one year contracts so we just need to pay HCTB. I am confident Standiford or Hooper could hire a coaching staff and DOBO for $358,000 (current budget for assistant coaches and DOBO). Obviously if things work out they would get a nice increase after 3 years...

What do we have to lose?

[SB Shock]

Assistant coaches have one year deals so we just need to pay HCTB. I am confident Standiford or Hooper could hire a coaching staff and DOBO for $345,000 (current budget for assistant coaches and DOBO). Obviously if things work out they would get a nice increase after 3 years...

What do we have to lose?

All you know that Steele is on a year to year. We don't know about Walker contract, I would expect it is long term. It been kind of forgotten but WSU is also paying out Kemnitz contract (he had a long term contract).

They say it was not about the money, but it is about the money - we all know it is. If they big boosters wanted change, then there would be change. It is about risk and rate of return. Let's assume they hire Hooper (my gut is DB won't hire Hooper or Standiford due to bad blood) and he makes all the right decisions and everything breaks his way - what is there return on attendance - maybe they get a 2,000 increase. That is $600,000 max. It very likely they will have to hire even a bigger risk than HCTB because who is really going to want to come to WSU and take this program over? Not anybody proven.

[DUShock]

OK, so until the truths find their way I must accept the administration's version as the basic facts. Regardless, Todd Butler sucks. Hopefully his replacement is competent and has a contract with sufficient incentive and enough outs for the University to make a change if necessary.

[WichitaStateGuy]

Let's assume they hire Hooper (my gut is DB won't hire Hooper or Standiford due to bad blood)

Can someone go into the "bad-blood" that gets brought up in regard to Hooper and Standiford?

From an outsider with zero "inside" knowledge, given both these men's current work situation, I feel like both would jump at the opportunity to coach WSU-- even at a discount.

Thanks in advance!

[ShockTalk]

Let's assume they hire Hooper (my gut is DB won't hire Hooper or Standiford due to bad blood)

Can someone go into the "bad-blood" that gets brought up in regard to Hooper and Standiford?

From an outsider with zero "inside" knowledge, given both these men's current work situation, I feel like both would jump at the opportunity to coach WSU-- even at a discount.

Thanks in advance!

Given the way he posted it, I think he is thinking that ADDB won't hire a past fHCGS player, not that Hooper or Standiford wouldn't want the job. The bad blood is between DB and GS, not anyone else. The only thing from Hooper or Standiford position might be that they didn't get a chance at the job the last time and might be upset about that. Personally, I would hope DB isn't that short sighted nor would Hoop or Standiford turn down the opportunity.

From WSU fans' perspective, I'm not sure most would immediately support an "outsider" the very next time. I believe it will be very strongly voiced that they want someone from the WSU baseball family.

[ShanShock]

Given the way he posted it, I think he is thinking that ADDB won't hire a past fHCGS player, not that Hooper or Standiford wouldn't want the job. The bad blood is between DB and GS, not anyone else. The only thing from Hooper or Standiford position might be that they didn't get a chance at the job the last time and might be upset about that. Personally, I would hope DB isn't that short sighted nor would Hoop or Standiford turn down the opportunity.

From WSU fans' perspective, I'm not sure most would immediately support an "outsider" the very next time. I believe it will be very strongly voiced that they want someone from the WSU baseball family.

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