Fire Todd Butler

[ShockTalk]

It would be ironic if Butler, who likes his players big, would be replaced by either of two of my all time favorite WSU players Hooper or Standiford.

[WSUwatcher]

. When Gene was hired he wasn't given a 7 year contract. And paid $300K per year. He was given a MONTH TO MONTH contract and was paid $1000 per month. A huge difference. In fact, Gene had to win a national championship before he could get a significant pay raise.

Yes, Phil, that highlights the difference even more than what I said about their relative backgrounds.

Also, it's a pretty standard practice to allow the new guy to hire his own staff in full, and there are good management reasons for doing it that way. I understand the reasons it didn't happen in this case -- some semblance of continuity, keeping the team from completely dissolving, Kemnitz's distinction as a coach, etc. -- but it seems clear that whatever benefits were hoped for by retaining Kemnitz either didn't work out or have been superseded by the costs of having an incompatible pitching coach, however talented he may be, imposed on the head man.

I haven't looked back, but some posters probably thought there should have been a clean sweep from the very first, and what we're seeing now certainly suggests that they were right. If it were me in charge, I'd (a) determine as best I can whether Butler is behaving inappropriately toward Kemnitz, and if so, make it clear that conducting himself in a civil and professional manner toward his staff is a non-negotiable job requirement for him; (b) give him a chance to hire his own pitching coach at the end of the season; and (c) tell him the change needs to pay off soon -- he doesn't have the rest of his contract to turn things around.

In a previous post I mentioned that Texas was spinning its wheels for a while after Garrido took over for Gustafson: 52-54 his first two seasons, and toward the bottom of the league both times. He wasn't the savior DeLoss Dodds had expected (I was paying attention, because back then I was hoping Gene might ultimately overtake him to become #1 on the all-time wins list), and it didn't look good. Even his third season (36-26) was worse than Gustafson's last at a point when the program was in obvious decline. What saved the old Zenmaster, among other things, was some mandated staff housecleaning -- the thing Gene stubbornly refused -- which included getting the right pitching coach on board.

I'm not saying that Butler will follow the same path; Garrido had a bit more success pre-Texas, shall we say, than Butler had pre-WSU to provide reason for hope. But assuming he can act like a professional, Butler should at least get a shot with his own players AND his own coaches, even if the leash is fairly short. And if that doesn't work, then it's time for Sexton to be called on to use some of his fundraising skills that obviously exceed his coach-hiring talents and help raise the money for a buyout of Butler's excessive contract.

[1972Shocker]

It would be ironic if Butler, who likes his players big, would be replaced by either of two of my all time favorite WSU players Hooper or Standiford.

Also somewhat ironic is that Butler himself was a smallish player and used his speed to help him achieve 3rd team AA status his senior year at OU.

[Shockers5150]

NM

[Aargh]

Kemnitz has a proven track record of putting one of the best pitching staffs in D1 ball on the mound when he recruits and develops.

Butler has a proven track record of sucking at putting D1 teams on the field.

Any more questions?

[DUShock]

Kemnitz has a proven track record of putting one of the best pitching staffs in D1 ball on the mound when he recruits and develops.

Butler has a proven track record of sucking at putting D1 teams on the field.

Any more questions?

These are two true statements.

[mr_baseball]

Found this interesting.....

-Quote from Suellentrop-

After the game, Shockers coach Todd Butler explained the mystery from earlier in the week, when assistant coach Brian Walker, instead of pitching coach Brent Kemnitz, made visits to the mound in recent games. Walker calls pitches from the dugout and went to the mound to tell a pitcher how to attack a hitter, Butler said.
“That won’t happen again,” Butler said. “Brent is the pitching coach. Brent will always be going out. It was a miscommunication on my part and I take responsibility.”
Kemnitz was on a recruiting trip to Texas, one planned several weeks ago, and did not attend Thursday’s game.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...#storylink=cpy

[SB Shock]

I wonder if this recruiting trip was for Kemnitz next job?

[Ricardo del Rio]

WSU calls him a graduate: http://goshockers.com/news/2015/8/21/SB_0821152215.aspx

When this subject was discussed three years ago, I seem to recall that the final determination was that Hooper was a graduate.

[shocker22]

Found this interesting.....

-Quote from Suellentrop-

After the game, Shockers coach Todd Butler explained the mystery from earlier in the week, when assistant coach Brian Walker, instead of pitching coach Brent Kemnitz, made visits to the mound in recent games. Walker calls pitches from the dugout and went to the mound to tell a pitcher how to attack a hitter, Butler said.
“That won’t happen again,” Butler said. “Brent is the pitching coach. Brent will always be going out. It was a miscommunication on my part and I take responsibility.”


Kemnitz was on a recruiting trip to Texas, one planned several weeks ago, and did not attend Thursday’s game.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...#storylink=cpy

Not a fan of calling pitches from the dugout. Should have coached the C and P well enough to have that responsibility.

[Shocker85]

Found this interesting.....

-Quote from Suellentrop-

After the game, Shockers coach Todd Butler explained the mystery from earlier in the week, when assistant coach Brian Walker, instead of pitching coach Brent Kemnitz, made visits to the mound in recent games. Walker calls pitches from the dugout and went to the mound to tell a pitcher how to attack a hitter, Butler said.
“That won’t happen again,” Butler said. “Brent is the pitching coach. Brent will always be going out. It was a miscommunication on my part and I take responsibility.”
Kemnitz was on a recruiting trip to Texas, one planned several weeks ago, and did not attend Thursday’s game.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/sports/college...#storylink=cpy

This sounds like spin by a desperate coach to save face.

[Cdizzle]

Not a fan of calling pitches from the dugout. Should have coached the C and P well enough to have that responsibility.

I used to feel this way. And I think I was right to at the time. And I think there is still a place for it. However, with all of the advanced data available now that can be much more easily utilized in real time from the dugout, my perception has changed some.

[Cdizzle]

This sounds like spin by a desperate coach to save face.

Also sounds like a friggin' soap opera.

[Shocker85]

Not a fan of calling pitches from the dugout. Should have coached the C and P well enough to have that responsibility.

Agreed, but this is now quite common is college baseball. It seems like more teams call pitches from the dugout than letting the catcher do so.

[Shocker85]

I used to feel this way. And I think I was right to at the time. And I think there is still a place for it. However, with all of the advanced data available now that can be much more easily utilized in real time from the dugout, my perception has changed some.

But there is a feel the catcher has for the pitcher's stuff on a given day. They should have enough information in the scouting report to know pitches and location on each hitter.