Shocks at ORU (Moved to Wednesday)

[Shocker85]

But at least we have a taller roster than we did under HCGS.

Ahh ... the Todd Butler BS smokescreen: "Bigger physical specimens make better baseball players."

What a crock.

How about recruiting ball players without being hard over on their size. Then teach them something once they get here.

Sheesh.

[shockerfanmas]

Can we please get rid of Todd Butler already? I was not a fan of the hire to begin with and he's done nothing to prove me wrong. I realize he can't go up there and swing the bat himself, but at least recruit guys who want to swing and who want to compete. It's beyond sickening

[Rosewood]

I'm beyond angry now. The level of incompetence at the plate is simply laughable. How do hitters have a keen eye to identify a pitch out of the zone but don't have the eye to square up a ball in the strike zone. I guess only top 25 teams display this, sorry, I answered my own question.

Can we sticky this image somehow for this forum ?

[KC Shox]

Can we please get rid of Todd Butler already? I was not a fan of the hire to begin with and he's done nothing to prove me wrong. I realize he can't go up there and swing the bat himself, but at least recruit guys who want to swing and who want to compete. It's beyond sickening

I'm beginning to agree with you. How much credit should he be given while at Arkansas and Alabama? The last time I checked, those two programs were successful before he got there and they continue to be after he left. SEC baseball sells itself, it's not hard for SEC programs to attract the best college players around.

Or, the argument can be made that mid-major baseball programs are finding it harder and harder to be a consistent, relevant, power programs. It's been discussed for years now, that as more and more P5 universities pour money into their baseball programs, the pool of recruits that successful mid-major programs used to get are dwindling as these recruits are enticed by the idea of belonging in a P5 program and all the benefits that come with it.

What I do want to see if a coach who comes from a background where he's had to scratch and claw for everything he's achieved. Has a chip on his shoulder and hasn't experienced the spoils that a P5 program offers. He and his players have this motto, "I work my ass off to kick yours".

[Shockerman]

Getting close to my annual "checkout" until the Valley Tournament post. It is tough to pull the trigger on my fandom in February, but all the usual signs are there.

[shockfan89_]

What I do want to see if a coach who comes from a background where he's had to scratch and claw for everything he's achieved. Has a chip on his shoulder and hasn't experienced the spoils that a P5 program offers. He and his players have this motto, "I work my ass off to kick yours".

You mean someone like Kevin Hooper? If only he would have been interested in the job...

[RoyalShock]

Or, the argument can be made that mid-major baseball programs are finding it harder and harder to be a consistent, relevant, power programs. It's been discussed for years now, that as more and more P5 universities pour money into their baseball programs, the pool of recruits that successful mid-major programs used to get are dwindling as these recruits are enticed by the idea of belonging in a P5 program and all the benefits that come with it.

This is my concern, too. Top tier high school players go right to the pros. The next tier are going to P5 programs, leaving a watered-down pool of talent for everyone else. It may not matter who the coach is. That said, if these guys don't start swinging the bat and cutting down on all the watched strikes, Butler will fall out of favor with me.

Mark Standiford is looking better all the time.

[CharlieHog]

I'm curious what you guys consider "power five" conferences in baseball.

[shockfan89_]

I'm curious what you guys consider "power five" conferences in baseball.

I would say P5 = P4 for baseball (SEC, ACC, Big 12, PAC 12). The conferences with teams that finish around .500 in conference play or don't make the conference tournament and still get at-large Regional bids.

[Cdizzle]

Sooooo,

Your team is trailing 4-6 in the 9th inning. The oppositions pitching has just issued 4 consecutive free passes without recording an out.

And you swing at a 1-0 pitch? Are you freaking kidding me? If you are a junior who has a career batting average of .600 with 50 HRs, and you happen to hit a 580ft grand slam, then I can maybe be convinced swinging was a good idea.

It isn't just the talent level that is sooo bothersome. It is the complete lack of understanding of the game of baseball. Like, little league level stuff. And it seems to go all the way up. There is a take sign for a reason.

[shockfan89_]

I was thinking the same thing. In his defense, I am sure he was looking for something he could get under and drive (he got under it, just didn't drive it). BUT, I don't think he had thrown more than one or two strikes the entire inning. Look at one strike before you swing. I honestly think that pitcher would have walked one or two more in had we been patient.

[SHOCKvalue]

The problem is NOT recruiting. That was considered to be one of Butler's strong suits, and the recruiting classes we've since he's arrived have do nothing to dispel that. His first recruiting class was second in the nation, and last year's was the bottom end of T25, IIRC. We're getting some pretty studly kids into the program.

The problem is COACHING. Thankfully, we have a prior trend line on Butler's HC-ing abilities, one which the administration must have ignored in the due diligence process of hiring; Butler was a head coach at McNeese State from 2001-2003 and amassed a record of 90-83, which is strikingly similar to his W-L % here at WSU so far.

This we're-not-a-P5 thing seems a little bit of a stretch to me, in the context of college baseball, coupled with our history, facilities, and support. I think some of you guys are forgetting the name brand that was built under GS. It may be in hibernation, but it is still there ready to be awakened. When Butler was hired, his starting salary raised some eyebrows around the country due to the strong number. I would argue we are a major program playing amongst mostly amateurs in the MVC (and admittedly getting embarrassed the past near decade or so), much like what we are in MBB.

On the Hooper end of things, when it was announced in the press that he was taking a pro gig a few months ago, didn't it also mentioned that he was keeping his house and family in Wichita? I may be confusing Hooper with the Chris Jans situation while he was a BGSU.

[Cdizzle]

Meh. Recruiting rankings can suck it. It's the same crap we look at in basketball. Give me the guys that can actually perform under the lights and have half a brain. Recruiting stars don't win ball games.

[SHOCKvalue]

Meh. Recruiting rankings can suck it. It's the same crap we look at in basketball. Give me the guys that can actually perform under the lights and have half a brain. Recruiting stars don't win ball games.

You get players to "perform under the lights" with "half a brain" by coaching them, something we're not seeing. That's my point.

[RoyalShock]

Recruiting class rankings are heavily influenced by quantity, as they usually just add up the "stars". It's nice publicity, but also very quickly forgotten.