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2019/2020 Roster

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  • #16
    I had no idea we were that over committed. Is 20+ over-commits per year common in baseball?
    Kung Wu say: "If Chuck Norris had a coach, his name would be Gregg Marshall."

    Comment


    • Awesome Sauce Malone
      Editing a comment
      First (and Im not saying you are) I wouldn't put Quinton in the realm of "Oh just a causality of over recruiting" The kid was way too good to just let him go elsewhere. But without being privy to any other information – he’s gone so I guess let the speculation begin.

      Not all but a good number of schools over recruit. 20 + seems high, but baseball is a funny sport. My son is going into the KCAC next year as a freshman and so far (not including his) the KCAC has registered 19 LOI’s for his team alone. The team only had 9 Sr’s and the bulk of the team being Soph/Fresh. Coaches words were “that most of the kids they sign might not make it out of the first semester” and that could be for multiple reasons.

      Granted the NAIA and D1 are very different in talent level but they all still face the same pressures of being a student athlete away from home. Also factor in that a very high number of baseball players across all levels are paying for their college education. Kids have to take out loans to play baseball for Friends, Wichita State, LSU, the list goes on.

  • #17
    I posted this on the 2019 Recruiting Class thread but it probably is a better fit on this thread:

    In addition to the 4 players 2019 recruits who have decomitted the following players listed on the 2018-19 roster who still had eligibility remaining are apparently moving on to other things:

    Fr. Carson Cox, 6-3, 185 OF (Did not play in 2019)
    R-Jr. Noah Croft, 6-3, 215 1B/C (40 games/109 at bats in 2019)
    Fr. Cal Carver, 6-3, 185 LHP (10 appearances in 2019)
    Fr. Miller Pliemann, 6-4, 190 RHP (16 appearances in 2019)
    Fr. Jake Plastiak, 6-2, 200 3B (18 games/43 at bats in 2019)
    Fr. Jack Brimacombe, 6-1, 173 RHP (Did not play in 2019)
    Fr. Mason Miller, 6-0, 170 C (Did not play in 2019 - Primarily a bullpen catcher I believe)

    So before the decommits and roster defections we were potentially at 56, 21 above the limit, so at this point that overage has been cut in half to 10 above the limit based on what is publicly known at this point.

    I suppose the key group of players is the 27 players that are on scholarship. If you happen to find a key contributor among the 8 non-scholarship players on the roster is icing on the cake. Of course, if they are a key contributor they might be on scholarship in the future.

    Comment


    • 1972Shocker
      1972Shocker commented
      Editing a comment
      Actually I think that Brady Slavens was 1 our our 22 commits in the Class of 2019 but he graduated from high school a year early and joined the Shockers this past season. So the Shocks were potentially 20 over the limit and are now 9 over teh limit with the departure of the 7 players listed above plus the 4 decommits that have been mentioned. (Mark Adamiak, Colin Burgess, Quinton Hall and Juco Austen Siedel). However, we may have another Juco recruit in LHP Trevor Muncsh that @ Wuzee reported on but that commitment seems to be a bit sketchy at this point. Chances are Trevor would be a non-scholarship player but hard to know that for sure.
      Last edited by 1972Shocker; July 16th, 2019, 05:50 PM.

  • #18
    Add Adam Stephenson, a 6-1 OF/LHP a sophomore-to-be who was used sparingly last year, to the list of players on last year's roster who apparerntly will not be returning. His name is no longer listed on the 2020 roster.

    Comment


    • #19
      Juco commit Aaron Bechtel was named All American at the the NBC WS and also landed the Most Outstanding Local Player award. He figures to be in the mix for starts with Barnhouse, Eddy, Stuempfig, Snavely and Hamilton.

      Incidentally, all those guys are righties, and WSU has just one LHP returner (Reece Koon) on the roster right now. The new LHPs are Trevor Munsch, Beau Leonards, Hollis Huff and Connor Oliver. WSU hasn't carried fewer than four southpaws in recent memory.
      “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'
      Isaac Asimov

      Comment


      • #20
        There are currently 25 players listed on the current roster. This doesn't include players who have committed but have not arrived yet (Bechtel, Hamilton, etc.). I think that they can have 36 players (please correct if this is an incorrect number) on the roster for next spring. Does anyone know the remaining players who have committed, but aren't currently listed on the roster?

        Comment


        • WuDrWu
          WuDrWu commented
          Editing a comment
          That list doesn't include ANY of the incoming players, freshmen or otherwise.

        • 1972Shocker
          1972Shocker commented
          Editing a comment
          Unless there has been a recent change in the rules the final roster entering the season can have 35 players. Once that rosters is set, if any of those players are injured or otherwise leave the team they cannot be replaced.

          D-1 programs must declare a final roster of a maximum of 35 student-athletes by the day prior to its first scheduled regular season game.

          You have 11.7 scholarships to divy up to no more than 27 players with each scholarship player getting at least a 25% scholarship.

          So if you carry a full roster of 35 you will have at least 8 non-scholarship players although you could have more if you don't give out sholarships for 27 players. For example, you could divy up your scholarships among 25 players and carry 10 non-scholarship players.

          Last I checked 3 weeks ago we were still 10 players over the 35 player limit That probably has been whittled down some since then. Once the fall semester starts we should get a spring roster which might very well be in excess of 35 players. In the Butler era they often never published the final roster on goShockers.com. For example, the 2018-19 roster on goShockers.com still lists 39 players.,
          Last edited by 1972Shocker; 1 week ago.

      • #21
        Originally posted by Shockm View Post
        There are currently 25 players listed on the current roster. This doesn't include players who have committed but have not arrived yet (Bechtel, Hamilton, etc.). I think that they can have 36 players (please correct if this is an incorrect number) on the roster for next spring. Does anyone know the remaining players who have committed, but aren't currently listed on the roster?
        To be as precise as currently possible: We've got 25 on the roster and about 20 incoming.

        While we can only have 35 on the roster that limit is not enforced until Feb. 15. You can have more than 35 players for the fall and even in the spring until the Feb. 15 deadline. That may be what we're doing this year, when the coaching staff really doesn't know what it has yet even in the returning players. This might be a season where we see a lot of departures at the semester break, which would allow the departing players to find new homes before the 2020 season starts. Based on things Wedge has said about how he wants to operate, I wouldn't expect that to be the case in subsequent years.

        Incoming players on my tentative list are:

        (Jucos in blue)

        COLORADO
        3B Derek Shaver 6-4 208 Grand Junction, CO (Grand Junction)
        RHP Foster Gifford, 6-3 205 Brighton, CO (Brighton / South Mountain CC)

        ILLINOIS
        LHP Connor Oliver 6-4, 180 Oak Forest, IL (Oak Forest)

        KANSAS
        RHP Aaron Bechtel 5-11, 188 Wichita KS (Heights / Coffeyville CC)
        OF Jake Owens 6-1, 200 Shawnee KS (St. James Academy / Johnson CC)

        2B Tyson Cheatham 5-11 175 Spring Hill KS (Spring Hill)
        C Mateo Martinez 6-1 210 Haysville KS (Campus)
        LHP Trevor Munsch 6-5 170 Lawrence KS (Free State / OU / McLennan CC)

        MISSOURI
        UTL Cade Clemons 6-2, 185 Lee's Summit MO (West)
        ??? RHP Will Stevens 6-3 225 Kansas City Mo (Park Hill)

        TEXAS
        RHP Creighton Hansen 6-3 200 Grapevine TX (Liberty Christian)
        INF Austin Roccaforte 5-7, 150 Tomball TX (Memorial)
        1B Blake Marsh, 6-2 215 Coppell TX (Trinity Christian Academy)
        1B/RHP Brandon Troxler, 6-2 215 Rockwall TX (Rockwall)
        LHP Beau Leonards 6-3, 190 Plano TX (Senior)
        RHP Kyle Wilson 6-4 195 Fort Worth TX (Keller Central)
        INF Couper Cornblum 6-0 178 Woodway TX (Midway)

        OKLAHOMA
        3B James Dunlap 6-1, 188 Tulsa, OK (Bishop Kelly)
        RHP Jake Hamilton 6-4 200 Asher, OK (Silo HS / Rose State College)
        LHP Hollis Huff 6-3 175 Norman OK (North)
        OF Mikey Burke 6-1 109 Tulsa, OK (Holland Hall Prep / Forida Southwestern State)
        Last edited by Wuzee; 1 week ago.
        “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'
        Isaac Asimov

        Comment


        • WstateU
          WstateU commented
          Editing a comment
          Looks like we're already hitting Texas (I-35 Corridor) hard...

          https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7WIA...6kCc/giphy.gif

        • Wuzee
          Wuzee commented
          Editing a comment
          All those guys except Hansen were recruited by the previous staff, so the jury's still out. That said: It's such a huge advantage with the in-state tuition for Texas metros that I can't imagine the new staff giving up on Texas.

      • #22
        Originally posted by Wuzee View Post

        To be as precise as currently possible: We've got 25 on the roster and about 20 incoming.

        While we can only have 35 on the roster that limit is not enforced until Feb. 15. You can have more than 35 players for the fall and even in the spring until the Feb. 15 deadline. That may be what we're doing this year, when the coaching staff really doesn't know what it has yet even in the returning players. This might be a season where we see a lot of departures at the semester break, which would allow the departing players to find new homes before the 2020 season starts. Based on things Wedge has said about how he wants to operate, I wouldn't expect that to be the case in subsequent years.
        Thanks for the list.

        While I don't doubt that Wedge has committed to operating in a ways to not over recruit, I would not be surprised that from year to year, we end up with 4-5 players over the 35 man limit. I don't think that he will just recruit bodies, and stack up recruits, the new coaching staff will be in the business of PROJECTING which junior (and some Seniors too) players will be drafted, and which junior players are happy playing in college and won't sign for just anything (will wait for a great deal). While they have some experience with projections like this, they will obvious occasionally miss and thus, they will minimally over recruit on occasion. The difficult decision will ultimately be when they have a full ride recruit that is plucked in the end by the professionals but since they will occasionally miss, they may end up with a few more than 35 players.

        Comment


        • #23
          The over-recruiting mess is simply due to scholarship offers. You can divvy among 27 players, and I'd speculate that we had 30-35 guys signed for assistance for this fall under HCTB. Just my speculation, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if no head coaching change had been made, we would not see Alex Jackson, Jacob Katzfey, Preston Snavely or Tommy Barnhouse as members of the team unless they were walk ons. If you can get kids on academic partial or full rides (and many of these kids qualify that way) there's no reason not to be over 35 as long as we're not forcing out scholly players (for the most part).

          Comment


          • shockfan89_
            shockfan89_ commented
            Editing a comment
            You're telling my that Jacob Katzfey, who started 53 of 59 games last season, played in 57 of 59 games and was the 4th leading hitter on the team, and the top returning hitter from last year, wouldn't be on the team unless he walked on if fHCTB was here? If so, good riddance to fHCTB!

            Katzfey was 4th in ABs, 2nd in Runs scored, 4th in hits, 5th in doubles, 1st in triples, 6th in HRs, and 7th in RBIs. Keep in mind, the 3 seniors were in front of him in most categories.

            I get what you are saying, but I think that might be a difference between the old staff and the new one. I don't see any scenario under HCEW where a 4-year player like Katzfey would be forced to walk on or not be part of the team his senior season.

          • WuDrWu
            WuDrWu commented
            Editing a comment
            No doubt at all that the new regime will handle that differently. WAY differently. And you're right, there is no scenario in which that happens with HCEW. And check your PM.

          • shockfan89_
            shockfan89_ commented
            Editing a comment
            Of course I also cherry-picked Katzfey because he had a strong Junior year and is one of the top returning hitters. You are right that much of this is due to scholarships and the different thought process of different staffs. I am probably more frustrated that NCAA Division 1 baseball still only gets 11.7 full scholarships for a roster of 35...

        • #24
          Shockers lead the nation in Transfer Portal entrants with 10. I think we've only identified 8 so far, so two names on the current roster may be gone. If that's the case, I would look to the OF, as that's where we've got two Juco guys coming in (Owen and Burke) along with incumbents Katzfey, Slavens, Vanvooren, Gibson and Jackson. That would put us only 8-9 over the limit heading into fall.

          https://d1baseball.com/stories/insid...group-of-five/
          Last edited by Wuzee; 1 week ago.
          “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'
          Isaac Asimov

          Comment


          • #25
            Originally posted by Wuzee View Post

            To be as precise as currently possible: We've got 25 on the roster and about 20 incoming.

            While we can only have 35 on the roster that limit is not enforced until Feb. 15. You can have more than 35 players for the fall and even in the spring until the Feb. 15 deadline. That may be what we're doing this year, when the coaching staff really doesn't know what it has yet even in the returning players. This might be a season where we see a lot of departures at the semester break, which would allow the departing players to find new homes before the 2020 season starts. Based on things Wedge has said about how he wants to operate, I wouldn't expect that to be the case in subsequent years.

            Incoming players on my tentative list are:

            (Jucos in blue)

            COLORADO
            3B Derek Shaver 6-4 208 Grand Junction, CO (Grand Junction)
            RHP Foster Gifford, 6-3 205 Brighton, CO (Brighton / South Mountain CC)

            ILLINOIS
            LHP Connor Oliver 6-4, 180 Oak Forest, IL (Oak Forest)

            KANSAS
            RHP Aaron Bechtel 5-11, 188 Wichita KS (Heights / Coffeyville CC)
            OF Jake Owens 6-1, 200 Shawnee KS (St. James Academy / Johnson CC)

            2B Tyson Cheatham 5-11 175 Spring Hill KS (Spring Hill)
            C Mateo Martinez 6-1 210 Haysville KS (Campus)
            LHP Trevor Munsch 6-5 170 Lawrence KS (Free State / OU / McLennan CC)

            MISSOURI
            UTL Cade Clemons 6-2, 185 Lee's Summit MO (West)
            ??? RHP Will Stevens 6-3 225 Kansas City Mo (Park Hill)

            TEXAS
            RHP Creighton Hansen 6-3 200 Grapevine TX (Liberty Christian)
            INF Austin Roccaforte 5-7, 150 Tomball TX (Memorial)
            1B Blake Marsh, 6-2 215 Coppell TX (Trinity Christian Academy)
            1B/RHP Brandon Troxler, 6-2 215 Rockwall TX (Rockwall)
            LHP Beau Leonards 6-3, 190 Plano TX (Senior)
            RHP Kyle Wilson 6-4 195 Fort Worth TX (Keller Central)
            INF Couper Cornblum 6-0 178 Woodway TX (Midway)

            OKLAHOMA
            3B James Dunlap 6-1, 188 Tulsa, OK (Bishop Kelly)
            RHP Jake Hamilton 6-4 200 Asher, OK (Silo HS / Rose State College)
            LHP Hollis Huff 6-3 175 Norman OK (North)
            OF Mikey Burke 6-1 109 Tulsa, OK (Holland Hall Prep / Forida Southwestern State)
            Just expounding on this excellent list a bit, I have nothing really to add to the pitching yet.

            Derek Shaver is here and looks the part, but I doubt he's going to take time from Pax.
            Foster Gifford is here.
            Connor Oliver is here. Need a lefty to be good.
            Aaron Bechtel is here. Expect him to help in the spring.
            Jake Owens is a dude.
            Tyson Cheatham is here.
            Mateo Martinez is here. Love seeing the local kids.
            Trevor Munsch is here. Can't see a scenario where he doesn't help us in the spring.

            Cade Clemons is here. Mildly interesting that 3 newcomers worked 2nd yesterday. Mildly.
            Did not see Will Stevens. I don't believe he's here.

            Creighton Hansen is here.
            Austin Roccaforte is here. Not tall. Love to watch him play though. Who wouldn't?
            Blake Marsh is here.
            Did not see Brandon Troxler but I believe he's here.
            Beau Leonards didn't see him but I believe he's here. Need a lefty.
            Kyle Wilson is here.
            Couper Cornblum is here and is the early leader for best name.

            James Dunlap is here.
            Jake Hamilton is here and should be our Friday guy. The Texas Rangers screwed up and we benefited.
            Hollis Huff is here. Need a lefty.
            Mikey Burke is here. Mikey is a dude. Perhaps not a Jake Owens dude, but still a dude.

            Also mentioned somewhere is Chris Diehl (just seems odd to me although SOMEBODY has to give Ross a break next spring).

            If my count is right that's 44. Only some idea who the nine might be that don't make the roster.





            Comment


            • Cdizzle
              Cdizzle commented
              Editing a comment
              We need some dudes. Lots of dudes.

              I struggle to keep track of too much, so I'm kindof waiting for the dust to settle a bit before I get too attached to the possibilities on the roster. Excited to hear more in the coming weeks and get out to see them next month.
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