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  • WSU Baseball Resources


    The following site ranks the programs for spending and value for the period from 2008 to 2018.

    https://www.valuepenguin.com/2018/06...-programs#nogo

    WSU spending baseball ranking 2008-2018th - 38th
    WSU Value ranking for 2008-2018th - 84th

    I think you can conclude 2 things

    1. WSU is investing significant resources into baseball relative to other baseball program in DI
    2. WSU has not had the return on it investment in resources over this period.


    Meanwhile WSU basketball spending as a comparison

    2015-16 - 56th
    2016-17 - 69th

    It is not how big you are, it is how big you play - John Wooden

    It is time to find someone who can get WSU baseball to "Play Big" again



  • #2
    Wow, surprised to see that KU's budget is higher, K-State's is about the same and Rice has a million on us.

    Comment


    • #3
      If I looked at it right, only 37 schools spent more than WSU did for baseball. Just 2 had a ranking less than WSU -- Michigan and Kansas.

      Since we ranked 84th, that meant that 46 schools spent less and got more bang for their buck.

      In the AAC, only Tulane spent more than WSU by a grand total of $7,000 dollars. Memphis was the only AAC team ranked lower than WSU. Most of the other AAC spent around 60-65% of what WSU did.

      In the MVC, MSU (43 ranked) and DBU (44 ranked) were higher ranked than WSU while spending about 55% and 70% respectively. IN St ranked just behind us at 87th on 40% of our budget.

      Comment


      • #4
        This is very telling. Something needs to happen soon. I was talking to another Dad at my sons little league game the other day and he was asking where I went to college (he went to USC in the 90's). When I told him Wichita State, he said, man you guys used to have some great baseball teams! Made me sad to think about the USED to part of that and how true it really is. Time for change folks. We need to bring in someone who has ties to that era and understands what needs to be done and what it takes to get back to that. I understand that the college baseball landscape has changed alot in that time, but that is no excuse in my opinion, especially after you see what the program is willing to spend.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SB Shock View Post
          The following site ranks the programs for spending and value for the period from 2008 to 2018.

          https://www.valuepenguin.com/2018/06...-programs#nogo

          WSU spending baseball ranking 2008-2018th - 38th
          WSU Value ranking for 2008-2018th - 84th
          Hard to believe that anyone could outspend Texas -- a program spending more than twice what WSU does and not exactly getting its money's worth either -- on baseball, but Vanderbilt (!) actually managed to do so.

          Getting back to WSU, what's most disappointing of all about that evaluation is that their best performance on the field during the years covered was right at the very beginning, when Gene and his staff were just starting to burn out but the team was at least making super regionals. To slide as far down the efficiency rankings as they presumably have since then has required some serious underperformance this decade, which of course has been all too evident.

          Comment


          • shockfan89_
            shockfan89_ commented
            Editing a comment
            Did you miss LSU at the very top? Spending 5.8 Million on baseball? That is nearly WSU's budget (1.9 Million) more than Texas spends!!!

          • WSUwatcher
            WSUwatcher commented
            Editing a comment
            I did miss them, Shockfan -- I was amazed that anyone could spend even $4M. Thanks for catching them -- that's a serious amount of money for baseball.

        • #6
          Originally posted by ShockTalk View Post
          If I looked at it right, only 37 schools spent more than WSU did for baseball. Just 2 had a ranking less than WSU -- Michigan and Kansas.

          Since we ranked 84th, that meant that 46 schools spent less and got more bang for their buck.

          In the AAC, only Tulane spent more than WSU by a grand total of $7,000 dollars. Memphis was the only AAC team ranked lower than WSU. Most of the other AAC spent around 60-65% of what WSU did.

          In the MVC, MSU (43 ranked) and DBU (44 ranked) were higher ranked than WSU while spending about 55% and 70% respectively. IN St ranked just behind us at 87th on 40% of our budget.
          Very telling data. All of you Butler supporters need to come to your senses. No Dr. Is going to be able to fix this ailment with a drink of spiked kool aid. It’s time to cut this disease out and start the healing process.

          Go Shox.

          Comment


          • DUShock
            DUShock commented
            Editing a comment
            Who are these supporters you speak of and what is the evidence of the HCTB supporter?

        • #7
          Everyone is spot on. The AD is obviously not thinking. It will be 6 straight seasons under Butler where the Shockers will NOT have made the NCAA tourney. Undoubtedly, Butler and staff sell the history of the program to entice recruits to come here, but he has contributed 'nada' to this history. High school kids aren't stupid, they'll realize that Butler has not elevated the program to where it was once. The top rated kids want to go to a winning program/culture, we've got to bring in someone who will reinvigorate baseball. The status quo right now is slowly killing this program.

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by Veritas View Post

            Very telling data. All of you Butler supporters need to come to your senses. No Dr. Is going to be able to fix this ailment with a drink of spiked kool aid. It’s time to cut this disease out and start the healing process.

            Go Shox.
            Just to clarify, I'm not sure how many posters here are "Butler supporters" versus being supportive of the players. I'd say almost none to a couple at best still support Butler and some of that may be more of "until WSU hires a new coach". Doc, '72, others, and myself follow some of the games here when we can. Support the players and cheer their good efforts while not overlooking their shortcomings. Personally, I made the decision some time ago to not financially support the program and not personally attend the games. I have moved that type of support to other WSU sport programs. When we hire a new baseball coach, my support will return in those areas, but I have decided to continue my current support of these other programs as well.

            Comment


            • #9
              Originally posted by Veritas View Post

              Very telling data. All of you Butler supporters need to come to your senses. No Dr. Is going to be able to fix this ailment with a drink of spiked kool aid. It’s time to cut this disease out and start the healing process.

              Go Shox.
              This post is akin to shining a flashlight into a black hole.
              Kung Wu say: "If Chuck Norris had a coach, his name would be Gregg Marshall."

              Comment


              • #10
                Originally posted by ShockTalk View Post

                Just to clarify, I'm not sure how many posters here are "Butler supporters" versus being supportive of the players. I'd say almost none to a couple at best still support Butler and some of that may be more of "until WSU hires a new coach". Doc, '72, others, and myself follow some of the games here when we can. Support the players and cheer their good efforts while not overlooking their shortcomings. Personally, I made the decision some time ago to not financially support the program and not personally attend the games. I have moved that type of support to other WSU sport programs. When we hire a new baseball coach, my support will return in those areas, but I have decided to continue my current support of these other programs as well.
                Very well said although I totally understand why some fans are extremely upset with the state of the program and almost all fans are upset to some degree or another to the point of apathy.. And I really have no problem with them posting those feelings although it doesn't seem to have had much effect. Although I will say that although HCTB deserves all the criticism for the poor performance of the team on the field he is not the main culprit in getting the Shocker baseball program to this point and I certainly don't expect HCTB to make any decisions that are not in the his best interest and the best interest of his family. He was hired to be the head baseball coach pursuant to a contract. I expect anyone to negotiate the best contract they can get. It is up to the Wichita State athletic department to hire (or retain) the best person and to negotiate a contract that is in the best interest of Wichita State. They AD's office's performance in that regard, with hindsight I suppose, is far worse than HCTB's performance as head coach IMHO.

                At this point, given the apathy surrounding the program I don't see how Wichita State, barring a miracle finish by the Shocks, has any choice but to make a change in leadership at the end of this year. We'll see I guess. On the other hand I don't really expect a return to the first 20 years of Gene's tenure (nor did I expect that during the latter part of Gene's tenure). But certainly we should be more relevant than we are now and be able to get to post-season play on a somewhat regular and consistent basis. If we can't get this done than perhaps we should perhaps evaluate the wisdom of spending what we are on baseball if we are not getting any significant return on investment.
                Last edited by 1972Shocker; 6 days ago.

                Comment


                • #11
                  This is interesting but odd that it does not include revenues. I don't know how you can really discuss a school getting "bang for their buck" when you don't include how much money the team is making.

                  Comment


                  • WSUwatcher
                    WSUwatcher commented
                    Editing a comment
                    That's a fair point, Charlie, although I doubt that any baseball programs are very profitable -- given stadium size, there's just not enough revenue opportunity.

                    But it's obviously true that a program that spends $1.9M and takes in $1.8M is by its very nature going to be more "cost effective" than one who spends 1.9M and takes in 1.0M. Not that those are necessarily WSU's numbers (and I don't have the time or inclination to research and try to find numbers that would be credible anyway), but whatever the exact totals are, I don't think anyone around here doubts that Shocker baseball revenue has dropped off significantly along with attendance and interest in recent seasons. So to that extent, WSU baseball currently is even less cost effective than it might be.

                • #12
                  Originally posted by CharlieHog View Post
                  This is interesting but odd that it does not include revenues. I don't know how you can really discuss a school getting "bang for their buck" when you don't include how much money the team is making.
                  I'm not sure why where the money you are spending is coming from changes the conclusions any. However, I would say that programs that generate the highest ratio of direct, unsubsidized revenues vs expenditures would certainly seem to be the most likely to be able to sustain a successful program.
                  Last edited by 1972Shocker; 4 days ago.

                  Comment


                  • CharlieHog
                    CharlieHog commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I think you're absolutely right if you're looking at expenditures as a commitment to and expectation from the program.

                    I think calling these programs "cost effective" is the issue. This report isn't measuring cost effectiveness at all.

                  • 1972Shocker
                    1972Shocker commented
                    Editing a comment
                    No, it certainly isn't measuring effectiveness.

                • #13
                  This will slowly start to fix itself once the stink of Todd Butler and Eric Sexton is washed off this program.

                  Bring in Wedge or Hooper (my vote is for Hooper) and get this thing rolling again.
                  "I think (the tournament expansion) really hurts the Power Conferences." - Digger Phelps.

                  Comment


                  • #14
                    What is Hooper up to these days? Wedge too? Does that raise any concerns if both have separated themselves from the baseball for the past years?

                    Comment


                    • #15
                      Originally posted by Shox The Revenant View Post
                      What is Hooper up to these days? Wedge too? Does that raise any concerns if both have separated themselves from the baseball for the past years?
                      Isn’t Hooper a hitting instructor or other trainer in the San Diego farm system?

                      Comment

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