The illusion that was KSU football

[Aargh]

Thinking KSU fans will turn on Snyder is something like thinking WSU fans would turn on Marshall if he won less than 20 games one year.

[ShockdaWorld]

I'm not a KSU fan at all. Realistically, while I enjoy watching college football, just because it's football, I don't have a favorite team, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't consider KSU as an option. That being said, I do think Bill Snyder is a great guy and a great coach, who I have a lot of respect for.

[shoxlax]

Gene Stephenson built the baseball program from nothing. Gene Stephenson went to seven CWS and won a national championship.
Yet when it was all said and done, most people thought Gene had coached about three years too long and were ready for him to leave, my self included
Of course Coach Snyder doesn't seem to have the baggage Gene had but just sayin....

As far as I'm concerned Coach Snyder deserves every accolade he gets and then some. If their idiotic fans can't see and appreciate what he has done not once but twice in a place that has to be difficult to recruit to and not cheat, then they deserve Bruce Weber as their basketball coach. Oh wait...

[wusphlash]

Bill Snyder will be remembered fondly by KSU fans as well as others for a remarkable job of building a respectable football program .......twice. I doubt that a few mediocre years will tarnish that much if at all. I fear, however, that he won't realize that it's time to go.

[Pigman]

Guys, You have to remember one thing. Mr Snyder has done more with walk-on, marginal players that are overlooked and have a chip on their shoulders than anybody else has done. Reminds me of Jack Hartman. He would pass many times on great players to go with better people. Yes, I have Purple blood and am not ashamed. But my money and support go to WSU!! The margin for error for KSU is very thin. They outwork anybody and if they don't play nearly perfect they won't win. They should not have been in the game against TCU and came a hair from winning that game. KSU hasn't won near as many bowl games that I wish they have but sometimes much greater ability wins. Which would you prefer to marry your daughter? The men that people like Bill and Gregg produce or the problem people You see coming from the "top" programs? Think of what Gregg is doing here. Yes, the talent is absolutely fantastic but they are looking for kids that are basically flying well below the "Burger Boys". They are young men willing to be developed and pushed into being great.
Our coaches are always looking for young men that are willing to play team basketball the way the game is supposed to be played.
They are wanting to find great players but better people!!

[ShockTalk]

Gene Stephenson built the baseball program from nothing. Gene Stephenson went to seven CWS and won a national championship.
Yet when it was all said and done, most people thought Gene had coached about three years too long and were ready for him to leave, my self included
Of course Coach Snyder doesn't seem to have the baggage Gene had but just sayin....

As far as I'm concerned Coach Snyder deserves every accolade he gets and then some. If their idiotic fans can't see and appreciate what he has done not once but twice in a place that has to be difficult to recruit to and not cheat, then they deserve Bruce Weber as their basketball coach. Oh wait...

Since you brought it up and I'm dropping my discussion of this comparison after my statement, not only does Snyder not have the baggage of Gene, he conducts his personal and public life in a manner that should get him a good number of extra years, if he wants them. Add to this, if Gene (and his staff) had worked as hard at recruiting after coming back from OU at age 60 as Snyder did when he came back to KSU at 70, and still does at 76, things would have been different as well. Just sayin.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Saying Snyder hasn't accomplished anything is way off base and just shows a complete lack of knowledge of what has transpired at KSU in the last 30 years. If it's not THE greatest program turnaround in sports history, it's one of them. The extreme black and white idea that a team, coach, program, etc., can only be judged on a single accomplishment such as national championships or BCS wins is pervasive and one of the problems in sports today.

KSU administration needs to be working now on a succession plan worthy of Snyder's legacy. I have heard from a reliable source that they had Gary Patterson (a KSU grad) all but hired after the Ron Prince disaster ended but their AD bumbled the negotiations at the eleventh hour. Snyder had to come back to bail them out. Patterson is the home-run no brainer hire--and he may not ever talk to KSU again. There's quite a gap between Patterson and available Plan B's out there.

[im4wsu]

A season or two of losing records will never tarnish the legacy that HCBS has established; however, a season or two of losing records from a 76-year-old HCBS will be enough for the fans and AD and HCBS to say it is time to become coach emeritus.

btw, the impact of the new course requirements for recruiting JUCO players has not had sufficient time to impact the HCBS program, but it will certainly cause HCBS to alter his recruiting and team-building practices and philosophies in the near future.

[bleed yellow]

Saying Snyder hasn't accomplished anything is way off base and just shows a complete lack of knowledge of what has transpired at KSU in the last 30 years. If it's not THE greatest program turnaround in sports history, it's one of them. The extreme black and white idea that a team, coach, program, etc., can only be judged on a single accomplishment such as national championships or BCS wins is pervasive and one of the problems in sports today.

KSU administration needs to be working now on a succession plan worthy of Snyder's legacy. I have heard from a reliable source that they had Gary Patterson (a KSU grad) all but hired after the Ron Prince disaster ended but their AD bumbled the negotiations at the eleventh hour. Snyder had to come back to bail them out. Patterson is the home-run no brainer hire--and he may not ever talk to KSU again. There's quite a gap between Patterson and available Plan B's out there.

Can you name another legacy in all of sports that is similar to Snyder's? He's won quite a few games, but most of the big wins that define his legacy are merely regular season games against hated conference opponents.
That by itself is enough to satisfy KSU and their fans because they are simply unique. Beating your rivals isn't enough to be retained at most places.
As far as who replaces Snyder in the event of this spiraling out of control,it is kind of sad that KSU can't bring in a coach to continue what Snyder has built..twice. The location and size of Manhattan doesn't help them at all. And lastly, they don't have the money to bring in high caliber coach.

[The Mad Hatter]

Can you name another legacy in all of sports that is similar to Snyder's? He's won quite a few games, but most of the big wins that define his legacy are merely regular season games against hated conference opponents.
That by itself is enough to satisfy KSU and their fans because they are simply unique. Beating your rivals isn't enough to be retained at most places.
As far as who replaces Snyder in the event of this spiraling out of control,it is kind of sad that KSU can't bring in a coach to continue what Snyder has built..twice. The location and size of Manhattan doesn't help them at all. And lastly, they don't have the money to bring in high caliber coach.

In the first place, it is laughable to say that a coach that has won 2 conference titles and 3 division titles in a conference that was regularly producing national title contenders during his tenure, has 7 bowl wins, has had 13 teams finish the year in the top 25 and 6 finish in the top 10, is somehow unaccomplished.

But even if we buy into this crazy premise, just off the top of my head I'd say his resume is pretty similar to HOF Coach Hayden Fry. Of current coaches there is some similarity to Gary Pinkel at Missouri, expect Pinkel has a slightly lower winning percentage, has never made a BCS bowl game, and his only conference title was in 1995 with Toledo.

The real big difference, however is this:

With Snyder, KSU has a winning percentage of .659, without him they have a winning percentage of .380.
With Pinkel, Missouri has a winning percentage of .626, without him they have a winning percentage of .530.

You are right that it is hard to find a legacy like Snyder's, but not because of something he has failed to do. Name me another coach that has for decades had his teams win at almost 300 percentage points higher than their school's historical average. A coach like Nick Saban is great, but let's not ignore how much easier it is to win at schools like Michigan State, LSU, and Alabama, all of which had multiple national championships before Saban ever set foot on campus.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Can you name another legacy in all of sports that is similar to Snyder's? He's won quite a few games, but most of the big wins that define his legacy are merely regular season games against hated conference opponents.
That by itself is enough to satisfy KSU and their fans because they are simply unique. Beating your rivals isn't enough to be retained at most places.
As far as who replaces Snyder in the event of this spiraling out of control,it is kind of sad that KSU can't bring in a coach to continue what Snyder has built..twice. The location and size of Manhattan doesn't help them at all. And lastly, they don't have the money to bring in high caliber coach.

That's the problem--it is difficult to name a legacy similar to Snyder's. Very few coaches have taken doormats with the caliber of KSU's historical ineptitude and turned them into consistent winners with national relevance. After 5 minutes of Googling, I still can't come up with a decent comparison--it is that unique, astounding, and unlikely.

But I think you're missing my point when you say "most of the big wins that define his legacy are merely regular season games..." That's one thing that sports fans do/say that is so unfortunate.

I think Dan Marino is one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play football. But the fact he never won the Super Bowl for some reason diminishes his stature among the elite--at least for many people. WSU's 2014 undefeated team, in my opinion, was one of the best college basketball teams in the past 20 years--yet they didn't make it to even the Sweet 16. Too many great accomplishments in sports are ignored because an individual or a team is unfairly judged with a ridiculously narrow definition of success.

[bleed yellow]

That's the problem--it is difficult to name a legacy similar to Snyder's. Very few coaches have taken doormats with the caliber of KSU's historical ineptitude and turned them into consistent winners with national relevance. After 5 minutes of Googling, I still can't come up with a decent comparison--it is that unique, astounding, and unlikely.

But I think you're missing my point when you say "most of the big wins that define his legacy are merely regular season games..." That's one thing that sports fans do/say that is so unfortunate.

I think Dan Marino is one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever play football. But the fact he never won the Super Bowl for some reason diminishes his stature among the elite--at least for many people. WSU's 2014 undefeated team, in my opinion, was one of the best college basketball teams in the past 20 years--yet they didn't make it to even the Sweet 16. Too many great accomplishments in sports are ignored because an individual or a team is unfairly judged with a ridiculously narrow definition of success.

Snyder's biggest victory's beyond the regular season are beating OU in the Big 12 championship game and the Fiesta Bowl many moons ago.

Dan Marino may have never won a Super Bowl, but he at least got to play in it.. Could be worse. Alex Smith's 49er team reached the Super Bowl, but Alex did not play in it because he was benched for getting a concussion midseason. Marino probably wakes up happy as a clam everyday, where as Smith I kind of wonder sometimes. Lol

[Kung Wu]

Saying Snyder hasn't accomplished anything is way off base and just shows a complete lack of knowledge of what has transpired at KSU in the last 30 years. If it's not THE greatest program turnaround in sports history, it's one of them.

I can top it.

Back in '83 a guy by the name of Roman Badazki defected to Wichita from an eastern bloc country where they say his legendary soccer skills were drawing too much attention to the war torn region, so they tortured him and amputated his kicking leg.

Well in Wichita his legend had preceded him and before he even set foot at Midcontinent Airport, one of the Wings players had already hooked him up with coaching one of the absolute worst 3rd grade AYSO soccer teams in the country. It was there he first ran into his soon-to-be rival and nemesis, Shockernet's very own @JJClamdip:.

At the time JJClamdip had recruited basically all of the local boys he could find, with the single requirement that they were in the top 10th percentile of the 3rd grade in terms of height. Instead of teaching foot skills, Clamdip realized early on that an overly physical aerial assault could be practically unstoppable. So he taught his kids to slide tackle feet up, grab shirts while jumping, how to land on an opponents heels to knock their shoes off when jumping for a 50/50 ball, etc.

And at first it worked. He rose quickly in the ranks and everyone knew that '84 would be the year he would win district and regionals and be recorded in the AYSO Hall of Fame with his masterful new style that was dominating 3rd Grade Boys clubs far and wide.

However, per AYSO rules, girls had to be allowed to participate. And it just so happened that Roman's sponsor upon defection was the parent of one of the all-girls soccer team, The Smurfettes. Well they had not only never won a match but had never even scored a goal against Clamdip's Bombers.

Well that season, Roman, now known as the Wichita Wonder in the local coaching circles, was able to tap his contacts at Der Kaiser's East German Soccer Academy and import some orphan girls that were downright deadly with a ball at their feet.

For six straight years, Clamdip would have his butt handed to him in the district championship game, never making it to AYSO regionals. His reign of terror was over before it even began. His kids couldn't be consoled and neither could he. It was just too much, losing to girls in the district soccer championship matches year after year after year.

And to this day JJClamdip can no longer bring himself to watch a soccer match. He's sworn off the sport and belittles it to anybody that will listen.

But this story isn't about JJClamdip. It's a story about one of the greatest turnarounds in all of sports, by Roman "The Wonder" Badazki. This is a story about The Smurfettes.

[RoyalShock]

@Kung Wu: owes me a new keyboard. Or laptop. Whichever is more.

[shoxlax]

@KungWu that was 98% accurate and funny as hell. However you left out one fact. Roman's sponsor's last name: Frankamp.

Now you know the rest of the story