Guaranteed 4-Year Scholarships at South Carolina

[ShockTalk]

Here's the first salvo at non-Big 5 schools.

[The Mad Hatter]

Honestly, I have zero problem with this.

[ShockTalk]

Honestly, I have zero problem with this.

Would it be your assumption that a student athlete could be removed from a team, but still get a full ride and not count against the scholarship numbers?

or

As long as they don't voluntarily leave, become ineligible or violate university or athletic department rules, they remain on the team and count against the scholarship number?

[The Mad Hatter]

Would it be your assumption that a student athlete could be removed from a team, but still get a full ride and not count against the scholarship numbers?

or

As long as they don't voluntarily leave, become ineligible or violate university or athletic department rules, they remain on the team and count against the scholarship number?

Given what the articles says, I don't really have a problem with either scenario.

The second scenario is pretty self-explanatory as to why it is a reasonable idea. It keeps players from being cut if they want to stay and equalizes the level of commitment a player gives to a school and a school gives to a player.

The first scenario, I am also fine with (note that the article specifically says, "The only ways South Carolina athletes can now lose scholarships are if they voluntarily leave, become ineligible or violate university or athletic department rules," so those who violate rules or become academically ineligible don't get guaranteed scholarships) since it basically just means that players who get cut would still get their education paid for.

[Aargh]

But, what athlete getting cut would want to stay at that school, instead of transferring to another school, where they would play?

This strikes me as (probably) a non-issue. It guarantees that if an athlete is "cut", they can stay at the school that cut them to finish their education. There may be some who choose to do that, but those will be the ones who just want to quit sports. It seems unlikely to affect a significant number of athletes.

It seems that recruits who are concerned about getting cut will not be highly recruited athletes. Highly recruited guys have no fear that they could ever be cut. If they have that fear, it will negatively affect their recruiting.

This is a nice headline, but it's going to be relatively insignificant.

[The Mad Hatter]

But, what athlete getting cut would want to stay at that school, instead of transferring to another school, where they would play?

This strikes me as (probably) a non-issue. It guarantees that if an athlete is "cut", they can stay at the school that cut them to finish their education. There may be some who choose to do that, but those will be the ones who just want to quit sports. It seems unlikely to affect a significant number of athletes.

It seems that recruits who are concerned about getting cut will not be highly recruited athletes. Highly recruited guys have no fear that they could ever be cut. If they have that fear, it will negatively affect their recruiting.

This is a nice headline, but it's going to be relatively insignificant.

Where you will see the impact is not in cut players staying at the school, but in potentially seeing fewer player transfers. Right now, if a coach wants to free up a scholarship, they have a lot of leverage to get a player to transfer because they can pull the scholarship. If a player knows that they have a guaranteed scholarship, it may change that power dynamic somewhat.

Once again, a lot of players would transfer anyway to go somewhere they can get playing time, but there may be some cases that it changes.

I guess the other issue is that it guarantees that any players who have career ending injuries will have their education paid for. While some schools may do that anyway, it is a good move to guarantee it.

[ShockTalk]

I'm totally for this when it comes to student athletes that have a sport ending injury and, of course, the scholarship should not count against the total. I also agree this is a non-issue among the Big 5 type of schools, particularly for the major sports.

Where I'm not so sure about is how it affects the rest. I don't know how Coach Lamb does his scholarships, but I do know there is a lot of gals on that roster. Some have quit playing due to injuries that may not be considered career ending, some decide they're "moving on with their life", yet stay in school at WSU. Why should anyone voluntarily leave in these cases? If the limits on number of scholarships per sport stays in place, depending on how non-players are counted, this could have an impact.

How will this "guarantee" work with non-head count sports as they appear to be working on adding them as well? Might this play havoc with college baseball? If the non-player scholarships don't count against the total, I could see some coaches/schools cutting players left and right. If they do count against the total, it could really hurt the competitiveness of not as well to do schools.

My concern is not with Big 5-like schools. It's with the budgets and competitiveness of the bottom 2/3s. Can they afford either additional scholarships throughout their athletic department or will they become even more non-competitive if additional scholarships for non-players are counted against the total.

Also at the lower 2/3 of schools, the dynamics of where athletes can transfer to changes. They may decide to keep their full ride at their current school. More budget pressure on those that can afford it the least. Yet, if a lesser school does not offer the 4 year guarantee, they continue to become less competitive than ever.

[Kung Wu]

Would it be your assumption that a student athlete could be removed from a team, but still get a full ride and not count against the scholarship numbers?

or

As long as they don't voluntarily leave, become ineligible or violate university or athletic department rules, they remain on the team and count against the scholarship number?

There can be no doubt that it's scenario #1. There's no way the university would handcuff their own coaches by forcing a player that didn't pan out to count as a scholarship player.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

If a student must maintain certain grades to receive an academic scholarship, it seems fair that a student must maintain a certain performance level to maintain an athletic scholarship.

[The Mad Hatter]

If a student must maintain certain grades to receive an academic scholarship, it seems fair that a student must maintain a certain performance level to maintain an athletic scholarship.

The difference is that an academic scholarship isn't pulled from a good student because a smarter one comes along.

[wufan]

The difference is that an academic scholarship isn't pulled from a good student because a smarter one comes along.

Not exactly true. Funding can be diverted from one department to another more promising research area. An area where a particularly brilliant student would be brought in. The original student has no funding and loses their position. It's not as common as pulling athletic scholarships, but it certainly does happen in competitive post graduate level research.

[The Mad Hatter]

Not exactly true. Funding can be diverted from one department to another more promising research area. An area where a particularly brilliant student would be brought in. The original student has no funding and loses their position. It's not as common as pulling athletic scholarships, but it certainly does happen in competitive post graduate level research.

Post-grad research funding is a bit different than an undergrad academic scholarship which was the original comparison, but it may be a better comparison with how athletic scholarships operate.

[WuShock16]

I guess the other issue is that it guarantees that any players who have career ending injuries will have their education paid for. While some schools may do that anyway, it is a good move to guarantee it.

I thought this was standard operating procedure for the NCAA. I know we have had several cases here at WSU of guys who had career-ending injuries that still got education paid for (Zach Green from Turgeon era and obviously DJ Bowles right now). That isn't just because WSU is really, really nice. The NCAA rules allow that. The injured athlete can remain on scholarship and not count towards the team limit with the stipulation that he/she cannot compete again at that school anymore. I don't see why a school wouldn't allow this. To not do so when the NCAA rules definitely allow it is a bad move.

[The Mad Hatter]

I thought this was standard operating procedure for the NCAA. I know we have had several cases here at WSU of guys who had career-ending injuries that still got education paid for (Zach Green from Turgeon era and obviously DJ Bowles right now). That isn't just because WSU is really, really nice. The NCAA rules allow that. The injured athlete can remain on scholarship and not count towards the team limit with the stipulation that he/she cannot compete again at that school anymore. I don't see why a school wouldn't allow this. To not do so when the NCAA rules definitely allow it is a bad move.

You would think so, but it isn't necessarily the case:

http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/09/for-college-scholarship-athletes-injury-can-spell-financial-disaster/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kevin-ware-injury-could-put-scholarship-at-risk/

Offering guaranteed 4-year scholarships may not change the actual practice of many schools that already take care of injured athletes, but it would make it a contractual obligation, not just the beneficence of the institution. In addition, given the lawsuits that schools could be facing over injured players, establishing stronger guarantees of financial aid and medical treatment is probably going to be a high priority to establish that schools are acting responsibly toward people who sustained major injury while making money for the institution.

[Kung Wu]

You would think so, but it isn't necessarily the case:

http://dailycaller.com/2011/11/09/for-college-scholarship-athletes-injury-can-spell-financial-disaster/

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kevin-ware-injury-could-put-scholarship-at-risk/

Offering guaranteed 4-year scholarships may not change the actual practice of many schools that already take care of injured athletes, but it would make it a contractual obligation, not just the beneficence of the institution. In addition, given the lawsuits that schools could be facing over injured players, establishing stronger guarantees of financial aid and medical treatment is probably going to be a high priority to establish that schools are acting responsibly toward people who sustained major injury while making money for the institution.

What will happen to the player if he permanently injures himself in, say, a water skiing accident over the weekend?