Big Ten Considering Removal of Penn State?

[SubGod22]

Is there any precedence for that at all? You trust that the NCAA will do that?

There is. Look at Baylor basketball a few years back as an example. Even let players transfer in conference with no penalty.

Why should they do that? (Rhetorical question) Other than medical hardships, is there any precedence for this? If you were another university in the Big 10 or Div. I wouldn't you balk at this?

See above.

So you acknowledge that you are punishing a number of innocent people, but that's okay because the seniors will still have a degree? I can get a degree anytime. I can only play my senior year once in a lifetime. I'm not as bothered about those going pro. I'm more bothered about those not going pro.

Innocent people always get punished by the NCAA. Seniors would still get to play. Nobody loses a year and can get their degrees. Not a hard concept to understand.

Again, acknowledging that innocent people get punished, but it's okay because in the long term they'll be just fine. Sure, all these people will be just fine -- but why punish them if they are innocent? The answer can only be: to be sure to stick it to the people that AREN'T innocent. Yet every single one of those that are guilty are gone, and in the shameful manner that they should be gone.

The University should absolutely be punished for allowing it to happen. Lack of Institutional Control. Doesn't matter if all those people are still there or not. The University did it. And it wasn't just one or two people. And it wasn't just in the AD. Emails have been released that show it's a much bigger deal than originally thought.

Yes, there most certainly is a way to argue it. Like most Internet chatter on this subject you are ignoring the sequence of events that occurred. Sandusky retired in 1999 after being _cleared of all wrong doing_ of the investigation in 1998. By 2002, 3 years later, when he was actually caught, he would have been just a retired ex-coach. In fact that's a major piece of what is so infuriating about all of this.

The administration could have had his ass properly investigated with only minor damage in reputation to the university or the football program -- completely opposite of your assertion -- yet they sat on it. Context makes a big difference -- and there was just very little at risk in turning over a retired ex-coach with a prior investigation (regardless how clean he turned out on the first incident).

He was "retired" because they pushed him out due to his behavior. But he was still being paid by the University and I forget what his title was. He was more than just a former coach.

Yes, I'm very aware of what the public perception is. Regardless of public perception, a pedophile coach sexually assualting a child is a criminal matter WAY, WAY, WAY beyond the jurisdiction of the NCAA (as if NCAA has any jurisdiction at all). And a cheeseburger is a recruiting violation, like it or not, and is clearly in the "jurisdiction" of the NCAA gestapo.

The good knews is, I swim upstream alone on this and all you guys will get your way. I give them a 99.99% chance of getting the one year ban based purely on public pressure alone. Though if they wait until after the court proceedings to make a decision on the one year ban, I doubt the public pressure will be as palpable (because the court system will have taken care of business already).

They won't get the Death Penalty but should. The raping of young boys isn't under the NCAA powers. But the lack of institutional control and covering up felony's to gain an athletic advantage by preventing massively negative publicity is. And it goes beyond just the Sandusky thing. Reports have come out about a month ago from those inside the athletic department (admins/secretary's) that punishment wasn't given to players in season because JoePa didn't want the publicity or loss of talent and "took care of it" during the summer. I would say I don't know how that stuff never came to light, but considering what bigger issue they were able to keep covered up for a decade plus, I can see it.

[SubGod22]

The statue has come down and the NCAA has announced that there will be sanctions against PSU to be announced tomorrow.

NCAA President Mark Emmert hasn't ruled out the possibility of shutting down the Penn State football program in the wake of the scandal, adding that he had "never seen anything as egregious."

[ShockBand]

I saw this morning that an unnamed source says that they will not get the death penalty, but the penalties coming down will be to the point that the death penalty may have been better. That would seem to indicate loss of a large number of scholarships, and no TV or bowls for a significant number of years. We'll find out tomorrow morning at 8 am our time.

[SubGod22]

Here's the report. NCAA source: "Unprecedented" penalties against Penn State

(CBS News) CBS News has learned that the NCAA will announce what a high-ranking association source called "unprecedented" penalties against both the Penn State University football team and the school.

"I've never seen anything like it," the source told correspondent Armen Keteyian.[

If it's not the Death Penalty, it'll be interesting to see what does happen. Severe punishment is a must.

[pinstripers]

I dunno what is enough. No football for 5 years would be a start. The real travesty to me, is that our system allows no suitable punishment for Sandusky.

[pogo]

My understanding of the situation is that there is very little in the bylaws that would allow the NCAA to take action that wouldn't ultimately be reversed, but I am certainly no expert. That's just what I heard really smart people that work with the NCAA say in a discussion last week.

There may however be some folks going to jail, and it's about a 100% certainty that Penn State and all the athletic subsidiaries are going to be hit with about a trillion dollars in punitive claims.

I think that may be an oxymoron in the second sentence.

[pogo]

I dunno what is enough. No football for 5 years would be a start. The real travesty to me, is that our system allows no suitable punishment for Sandusky.

I think going to prison and being with the general population will be quite fitting...after all they really like pedophiles from what I have read.

[Aargh]

The penal system knows all about pedophiles in prison. Sandusky will never see general population. He'll be like BTK and the Carr Bros. 23 hous in isolation and an hour in an enclosed, protected outdoor exercise area. That may not be enough to protect him. General population will have a huge target on him and the guards jus might be "distrcted" or something. Sandusky is like someone on death row. He's going to die in prison, but when is never known.

[Kung Wu]

There is. Look at Baylor basketball a few years back as an example. Even let players transfer in conference with no penalty.

Well that certainly changes my position quite a bit. If innocent athletes aren't getting punished, then it makes it palatable. As @Aargh: said, effected staff will be fine.

Innocent people always get punished by the NCAA.

You say that like it's no big deal. But it bothers me how the NCAA gestapo metes out punishment. You didn't get a case of the red ass during the Clevin debacle? I know I did.

The University should absolutely be punished for allowing it to happen. Lack of Institutional Control. Doesn't matter if all those people are still there or not. The University did it.

Yes, this is the best argument for NCAA punishment, by a long shot. And I am coming around on it and agree. However the argument that keeps being put forth is the pedophile sexual assault versus cheeseburger argument. Pedophile sexual assault needs jury, judge, and lifelong prison sentence. Cheeseburger needs ketchup.

But he was still being paid by the University and I forget what his title was. He was more than just a former coach.

This is simply wrong, he was only a former coach. The only "title" he had was Emeritus, which is a status, not a working title. He was given a lump sum payment to "go away". Even though it was a lump sum, they were paying it in installments. BTW, his new prison title is "bitsh" -- and that IS a working title -- but I digress.

They won't get the Death Penalty but should.

They'll get something similar, but more creative. I'd prefer the court system shut down the entire program for several years, and let all of the students transfer. If the court system does it, it's much better, because they can also require the university to properly compensate specified employees that have just lost their jobs (those found to not be culpable, obviously).

Actually I suppose if the NCAA does it, then the employees could sue the University for compensation, so it probably works either way way but the NCAA approach is less certain for the innocents.

The raping of young boys isn't under the NCAA powers.

Thank you.

But the lack of institutional control and covering up felony's to gain an athletic advantage by preventing massively negative publicity is. And it goes beyond just the Sandusky thing. Reports have come out about a month ago from those inside the athletic department (admins/secretary's) that punishment wasn't given to players in season because JoePa didn't want the publicity or loss of talent and "took care of it" during the summer. I would say I don't know how that stuff never came to light, but considering what bigger issue they were able to keep covered up for a decade plus, I can see it.

Agree. You grab the pitchforks, I'll grab the torches!!