Loyola Joining the A-10

[ShockingButTrue]

LOLoyola big-leaguing the Valley is about as hilarious as it is shocking. From the Horizon to the A-10 in 8 years flat. A move like this just about cements the fate of the MVC as a declining mid-major power.

When we talk about the Shockers and future conference realignment apocalypse scenarios, the A-10 is now officially the "safety net". A move to the A-10 would signal the end of Shocker road trips and our baseball program.

Not so fast Ophelia...

Admit It.jpgAdmit It.jpg

[shock]

Why is his armpit talking?

[ShockingButTrue]

The 6th best team in A10 just whipped the Chickens.

[SB Shock]

MVC is a dumpster fire.

23-35

2-6 in Q1 games

[C0|dB|00ded]

The 6th best team in A10 just whipped the Chickens.

Really???

[SubGod22]

I believe the MVC just had some meeting this weekend where a handful of teams were supposed to make presentations for admittance. If I remember correctly from what I've seen, that list includes UIC, Murray State, UMKC, Omaha and Arlington. You would assume they'd take two or four of the five.

I made a case for Arlington years ago and always felt a better conference would do them wonders. But that case was also because I thought having a Texas presence in the Valley would be a benefit to Wichita being as we recruit students and athletes pretty heavily down there.

I am surprised that I've seen no talk of Northern Kentucky. I used to think pairing Milwaukee and Green Bay wouldn't be the worst idea, but I believe Milwaukee has some financial issues and I haven't heard much of anything out of Green Bay in a long time. I also always thought Little Rock would have made sense. It's not that far from Memphis which could be good recruiting ground and it's a reasonable drive from SWOMO and SIU and Murray should they be added. But I believe Little Rock is headed to the OVC or ASUN. I don't recall, but I know the Belt is urging them and Arlington to find new homes and I believe waiving exit fees to do so.

I had a thought though. Even when we were still in the Valley, there seemed to be some tension and a disconnect, at least amongst some fans, with certain schools and the priorities or willingness to make the conference or at least their programs better. Could there be a hidden agenda to grow the conference to 14 to play a few years together to meet whatever requirement it is for length of time together and have some sort of split? Maybe the schools with football separate from the non-football schools. Maybe it's not along football lines and the top half in success or dedication to athletics separates from those that can't or aren't willing to invest. I believe to form a new conference, you have to have six or seven members who have been conference mates for I want to say eight years but could be off on that. Getting to 14 would provide a chance for a seven/seven school split where they could maybe fill in some gaps. Or maybe and eight/six split of six is the minimum number of the previous stipulation. Though I take that back, only the group forming a new conference would have to meet that, whoever would be staying and keeping the MVC title could drop as low as necessary and be able to backfill with whoever.

Probably not what's going on but it crossed my mind. The Valley going to 12 always made some sense to me. Especially if they go divisions to save on travel for some of those poorer schools. Going to 14 seems odd to me as they already don't have a good media deal and they'd be adding four more schools to that and probably not actually increasing their post season revenue from the tournament. They will be a mostly one bid league with possibly the occasional at-large bid.

No matter what, it will be interesting to see what is announced at some point in regards to expansion for the conference.

[pogo]

The disconnect I always felt was the mix of private vs public schools in the mvc. For a while I felt that the private schools were at a disadvantage because of poor financial health but then the sister public schools started dealing with lower enrollments and less money as well. Since I don't follow those schools anymore that disconnect could very well be moot now.

[SubGod22]

Everyone always thought there had to be some sort of public/private balance, but if they are going to 12 or 14 the only schools I've seen mentioned are publics. Only one of which has a history of being good at basketball and well attended. UIC did have an okay run a number of years ago where they seemed respectable enough, relatively speaking.

Also interesting that they're looking at bad teams in larger markets. Three of the four teams don't have football of any kind. If I remember correctly, back when Loyola was added, one of the concerns about Murray State was if they could get into the MVFC. It would be kind of funny if that's still a concern and keeps the best team available to them out of the conference. I'm guessing Arch Madness attendance has declined pretty significantly since the schools that used to have good fan bases and were in close proximity have pretty much been terrible. Murray State could also help there. Arch Madness was always best when Wichita, Creighton, Bradley and SIU had teams that all had chances to win. Wichita and CU are gone, SIU has fallen off a cliff and enrollment I hear has plummeted. Bradley has been in a weird place for far too long. They've always been the program with the most upside I've felt.

But I'm not sure if it's a public/private issue or a football/non-football issue within the conference. I try to keep tabs on the MVC from time to time. I don't go out of my way but it was home for a long time, even if I spent more than a decade wanting out and into something better. But like you, I don't have near as much info to fully grasp what is or may be going on. But conference realignment has always been interesting to me as well as conferences adjust and remake themselves.

But back to my split thoughts, the MVC may not even know that's what could be coming and going larger could make that easier. If the football schools eventually split and Murray State is a part of the invitations this go around, you'd have a conference of UNI, SWOMO, Illinois State, Murray, Indiana State and SIU. InSU is really bad and has a **** budget for everything, but if this were to happen, they'd have to be taken for continuity purposes. InSu really should probably be in a lesser conference for financial reasons. But that could be a decent foundation for both FCS football and a mid level basketball conference. They would have potential anyway. Add in the XDSU schools to get to 8. Not a great population base in that conference, but pretty strong football and potentially decent basketball. I'm not sure where they would go to get to 10. My FCS knowledge is limited and I'm not sure they'd want four schools in the Dakota's. I suppose they could keep Western Illinois and Youngstown State which I don't think bring a lot to the table in either major sport, but every conference has teams that finish at the bottom. There could be other options available.

The other side of things would be left with Drake, Bradley, Evansville, Valpo, Belmont and we'll say UIC as I expect them to be added and could include Arlington, which would be an even bigger outlier in this group. But they could try and add say a Little Rock and Oral Bob and then I sometimes hear talk about Bellarmine and St. Thomas as possible schools willing and wanting to move up that would be in their neighborhood, or they could go ahead and add Kansas City and Omaha. They have more options, but I think less upside. Valpo has fallen off, but if they and Bradley could get it going again and Belmont can remain solid there would be some potential. But it's all based around potential as only Belmont has had recent success really. If Arlington doesn't get into the MVC and ends up in the WAC, this conference could be a decent bus league, which seems like a number of the privates have wanted in the past.

I've gotten side tracked with this lol. I'm still interested to see if they go to 12 or 14 and who is added. I'm still surprised that there are schools that have never been publicly mentioned that would seem to make sense and be a boost (Northern Kentucky). I'm not entirely sure what the vision of the conference is or if they have an actual vision. I get what the American is looking at with the six incoming schools and I don't object, though I would have gone smaller in hopes of still pulling in some MWC schools in a few years. But the MVC doesn't have the TV contract potential and a few of the schools they're talking about have limited potential (KC/Omaha).

[SubGod22]

According to CBS, Murray State will be joining the MVC

This is a good move for The Valley. Belmont and Murray both bring a lot of success to the table and may very well be at the very top of the conference in short order.

The question still remains if they go and stop at 12 or continue to 14 as was previously speculated. We know UIC, Kansas City, Omaha and Arlington have all been in the discussion at one time or another. If I had to guess, 12 is UIC. I still see a lot of potential in Arlington if they have the right leadership, but we know many Valley schools are against flying anywhere if they can help it and even though Dallas is probably one of the easiest cities to fly into, will get a lot of pushback. Kansas City has never done much. Don't know a lot about Omaha. UIC being in Chicago and a bus ride for the vast majority of the conference seems to make sense.

[MoValley John]

According to CBS, Murray State will be joining the MVC

This is a good move for The Valley. Belmont and Murray both bring a lot of success to the table and may very well be at the very top of the conference in short order.

The question still remains if they go and stop at 12 or continue to 14 as was previously speculated. We know UIC, Kansas City, Omaha and Arlington have all been in the discussion at one time or another. If I had to guess, 12 is UIC. I still see a lot of potential in Arlington if they have the right leadership, but we know many Valley schools are against flying anywhere if they can help it and even though Dallas is probably one of the easiest cities to fly into, will get a lot of pushback. Kansas City has never done much. Don't know a lot about Omaha. UIC being in Chicago and a bus ride for the vast majority of the conference seems to make sense.

Omaha is struggling for the second year. That said, they have represented themselves well in the Summit, have been competitive across the board and have fantastic facilities. The baseball/softball complex is brand new. While smaller than some stadiums, it is chock full of amenities and is expandable. I ride my bike past this facility often and its awesome. It would probably be second only to Missouri State for quality. Baxter Arena would be one of the nicest arenas in the Valley. Basketball seating for 8,000, it is a gem. Upper and lower bowls, luxury suites, large center hung video scoreboard and ribbon boards highlight the arena with great concessions.

Outside of hockey, Omaha still struggles to draw fans, the local media, not unlike the challenges for UMKC, tend to ignore the Mavericks. That said, the local business community is behind the school, as is the philanthropic leaders. The growth of UNO, I mean Omaha, has been nothing but remarkable. I think it would be considered risky for the Valley, but the upside potential is huge. I have considered buying UNO basketball tix, just haven't gotten there yet. If they get in the Valley, I'm there. downloadfile.jpgdownloadfile-2.jpg

[MoValley John]

I did a quick Wiki search of Valley arenas. Baxter Arena would be smaller than Indiana State, Evansville, Bradley, Illinois State and Missouri State. Roughly the same as SIU and Murray State. Larger than Valpo, UNI and Drake. Much larger than Loyola, but they're leaving.

[SubGod22]

At 8k, it may be smaller than some of those arenas, but they also aren't filling them so it is what it is.

Sounds like Arlington has been told they aren't getting an invite as I've seen reports that they're now in talks with the WAC.

I'm guessing the MVC stops at 12, at least for now. I could see them adding Omaha and KC later on if certain goals are met. There was a time when it sounded like they really wanted to go to 14, but that may have also been while Loyola was still in the conference. If that were the case, UIC wouldn't be added, they'd have some decent strength at the top with Loyola, Belmont and Murray and maybe could afford to take a couple of fliers on potential with Arlington and Omaha. Arlington may not be available at a later date and just accept the WAC going forward. Sounds like Omaha has some potential and I know the MVC values the KC market on some level. Something they've lost out on quite a bit since CU and WSU left. They still have MSU, Drake and UNI supporters that I'm sure are there, but I don't think they carry the same KC weight as CU and WSU did.

I'd also keep future expansion eyes on Northern Kentucky, the two Wisconsin schools and there's a Minnesota school that has recently moved up and I think is in the Summit, could be wrong. They would be only the 2nd MN school in D1 and that could be of value to the MVC if they make some waves. I think they're pretty much out of IL schools to invite. Not sure about IN. Wright State and Detroit I suppose could be considered. Oral Bob, but I doubt that happens. Was always a little surprised Little Rock never seemed to be in the conversation. I have no idea what the finances are of any of these schools but they would expand the footprint a bit but not be way outside.

Or Washburn or Pitt State could jump up and they can get back into KS lol.

[ShockerGirl]

I always wanted Murray St in the MVC while we were there and never understood why it didn’t happen. Murray’s 2010, 2012, & 2015 teams would’ve been great adversaries.

I always viewed them as a mini version of us. Incredibly rabid fan base that travels, just a smaller version. St Louis would’ve been 90% Shocker and Racer fans those last 4 years.

[WstateU]

I always wanted Murray St in the MVC while we were there and never understood why it didn’t happen. Murray’s 2010, 2012, & 2015 teams would’ve been great adversaries.

I always viewed them as a mini version of us. Incredibly rabid fan base that travels, just a smaller version. St Louis would’ve been 90% Shocker and Racer fans those last 4 years.

Too bad Ja Morant was a couple of years too late for us in the MVC… would have loved to see him play in the AAC also. I even thought RCIV had some of the same potential (see Oklahoma State game), but he needs to get his head screwed on straight. Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[SubGod22]

UIC was officially welcomed into the MVC today. No surprise.

The MVC hasn't shot down the idea of moving to 14, but no timeframe was given. This gives Kansas City a chance to make some investments if they finally want to get in. Same for some of the others who might have wanted in like Omaha or any other potentials. I know there are some newer D1 schools in and around the MVC footprint that could become options down the road if their transitions go well.

But for now, the MVC is set at 12 starting next year with the loss of Loyola, but additions of Murray, Belmont and UIC. the Flames are obviously the weak link of that trio, but they do have potential and have had some success in the past. Not sure how long ago that was though.