CIA 'Torture'

[WuDrWu]

If the thought of pouring a little water on these thugs bothers the libs, Doc, the fact that we kill dozens of them on the battlefield every day must drive them crazy.

I sometimes wonder why the libs and the ACLU haven't sued Boeing and Airport security for intentionally killing Arab terrorists on 9/11. Must be a labor union thing.

[Snapshot9]

As a 3 time Vietnam veteran, I can tell you what occurs during wartime is usually different from what is reported back here in the States.

Waterboarding is no big thing. Many surfers suffer from it everytime they surf. Now, pulling fingernails out with pliers, that's torture.

Some people just don't get it, they say 'War is hell' for a reason, and it is, it's about survival on a very basic level, and it's not pretty.

[WuDrWu]

As a 3 time Vietnam veteran, I can tell you what occurs during wartime is usually different from what is reported back here in the States.

Waterboarding is no big thing. Many surfers suffer from it everytime they surf. Now, pulling fingernails out with pliers, that's torture.

Some people just don't get it, they say 'War is hell' for a reason, and it is, it's about survival on a very basic level, and it's not pretty.

I liked and respected you before snap.....that respect just took a giant leap forward. Thank you for your service to our country. :yes:

[KC Shox]

We need torture. As long as the Taliban continues to use pocket knives to behead a person while he is still alive, I am all for the government using whatever means necessary to ensure that we save a friend of the U.S. from this disgusting and gruesome practice.

[KC Shox]

As a 3 time Vietnam veteran, I can tell you what occurs during wartime is usually different from what is reported back here in the States.

Waterboarding is no big thing. Many surfers suffer from it everytime they surf. Now, pulling fingernails out with pliers, that's torture.

Some people just don't get it, they say 'War is hell' for a reason, and it is, it's about survival on a very basic level, and it's not pretty.

This also reminds of me a story my dad told me of our allies, the South Koreans during Vietnam. They often used torture tactics to get information the U.S. used. He told me that S. Korean soldiers would take the enemy up in a helicopter, throw one guy out the door for example and said you better speak up or you will suffer the same fate. The enemy would start chipping their teeth and after the Koreans got what they wanted, what do you think they did? They threw them out the helicopter anyway.

Don't think for a minute that the U.S. is too good to use torture. One way or another, we will get the information that we need. If it requires our allies or "sub-contracting" out the work, the info will be obtained.

[ShockerPrez]

We need torture. As long as the Taliban continues to use pocket knives to behead a person while he is still alive, I am all for the government using whatever means necessary to ensure that we save a friend of the U.S. from this disgusting and gruesome practice.

That's not the point of what is going on here. Honestly, the report could have said anything, and the left would have said it's torture, and Bush needs to be put in jail, the UN would have said the US is using 'extreme' measures on prisoners, and the right would have said, 'we have to do whatever to ensure the security of the country'. It wouldn't have made any difference. We would still be having this stupid debate.

This is nothing more than another topic to keep both sides pitted against each other where they were during election time.

What the difference is here, is that we aren't talking about taxes, healthcare or something else that when all is said and done, folks generally continue to go about their business. This involves men and women who put their lives on the line everyday being questioned on their actions, and the dirty laundry of the US being hung out to dry for the rest of the world to see, when it was unecessary.

[KC Shox]

We need torture. As long as the Taliban continues to use pocket knives to behead a person while he is still alive, I am all for the government using whatever means necessary to ensure that we save a friend of the U.S. from this disgusting and gruesome practice.

That's not the point of what is going on here. Honestly, the report could have said anything, and the left would have said it's torture, and Bush needs to be put in jail, the UN would have said the US is using 'extreme' measures on prisoners, and the right would have said, 'we have to do whatever to ensure the security of the country'. It wouldn't have made any difference. We would still be having this stupid debate.

This is nothing more than another topic to keep both sides pitted against each other where they were during election time.

What the difference is here, is that we aren't talking about taxes, healthcare or something else that when all is said and done, folks generally continue to go about their business. This involves men and women who put their lives on the line everyday being questioned on their actions, and the dirty laundry of the US being hung out to dry for the rest of the world to see, when it was unecessary.

My bad, I just read the title and rolled with it. I did not take the time to read the essence of the topic. Sorry I was in a hurry.

[ShockerPrez]

We need torture. As long as the Taliban continues to use pocket knives to behead a person while he is still alive, I am all for the government using whatever means necessary to ensure that we save a friend of the U.S. from this disgusting and gruesome practice.

That's not the point of what is going on here. Honestly, the report could have said anything, and the left would have said it's torture, and Bush needs to be put in jail, the UN would have said the US is using 'extreme' measures on prisoners, and the right would have said, 'we have to do whatever to ensure the security of the country'. It wouldn't have made any difference. We would still be having this stupid debate.

This is nothing more than another topic to keep both sides pitted against each other where they were during election time.

What the difference is here, is that we aren't talking about taxes, healthcare or something else that when all is said and done, folks generally continue to go about their business. This involves men and women who put their lives on the line everyday being questioned on their actions, and the dirty laundry of the US being hung out to dry for the rest of the world to see, when it was unecessary.

My bad, I just read the title and rolled with it. I did not take the time to read the essence of the topic. Sorry I was in a hurry.

I wasn't necessarily referring to this topic on SN, but that the national debate isn't about torture anymore. The topic is just breaking out into the usual right vs left and the reactions are typical. Does anyone think that when the report came out, the left was just going to give this topic up and say there was no torture?

There is too much political capital spent on the notion that Bush was a monster. This could have said anything and the left would have said, "SEE!!"

[ABC]

Some sanity from today's Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124078817411057411.html

Here are some nuggets:

But military interrogation is not akin to a friendly chat across a conference table -- nor is it designed to gather evidence in a criminal trial, as an FBI interview might be. There is a fundamental distinction between law enforcement and military interrogations that we ignore at our peril.

Fortunately, aggressive interrogation techniques like those outlined in the memos to the CIA are effective. As the memos explain, high-value detainees like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM), the mastermind of 9/11, and Abu Zubaydah, one of Osama bin Laden's key lieutenants, provided no actionable intelligence when facing traditional U.S. methods. It is doubtful that any high-level al Qaeda operative would ever provide useful intelligence in response to traditional methods.

Yet KSM and Zubaydah provided critical information after being waterboarded -- information that, among other things, helped to prevent a "Second Wave" attack in Los Angeles, according to the memos. Similarly, the 2005 report by Vice Adm. Albert Church on Defense Department interrogation policies, the "Church Report" -- of which I served as the executive editor -- documented the success of aggressive techniques against high-value detainees like Mohamed al Kahtani, 9/11's "20th hijacker."

The aggressive techniques in the CIA memos are also undeniably safe, having been adopted from Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape (SERE) training used with our own troops.

I have personally been waterboarded, put into stress positions, sleep deprived, slapped in the face. While none of this was enjoyable, I am none the worse for wear.

Similarly, the critics like to default to Guantanamo as a symbol of the kind of abuse that Mr. Bush's antiterror policies allowed. Yet, at the time of the Church Report, there had been more than 24,000 interrogation sessions at Guantanamo and only three cases of substantiated interrogation-related abuse. All of them consisted of minor assaults in which military interrogators had exceeded the bounds of approved interrogation policy. Notably, the Church Report found that detainees at Guantanamo were more likely to have been injured playing recreational sports than in confrontations with interrogators or guards.

[SubGod22]

Feinstein: Let Congress Investigate Interrogations

Sen. Levin: Outside Probe for Interrogations

McCain: Politics May Fuel Interrogation Charges

Leahy Demands 'Truth Commission' To Probe CIA

[SubGod22]

Fred Thompson shares his thoughts. And I agree with much of what he says.

[Maggie]

I don’t have time to read this entire thread but I think this article by Hanson should put some things in perspective with regard to this torture “issue”:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDdlNTdkMGIwZWVmMWM1NGIyODdiOWYzMDdmODlhNWE=&w=MA==

P.S. My building in NY, about one hour ago, was “buzzed” by a large commercial aircraft followed closely by a military jet. And when I write buzzed – I mean I felt I could reach out and touch the belly of the aircraft – which eventually turned South down the Hudson with its “escort”. I don’t know why this happened but it brought back some swell memories – memories that it appears some in this country would like to conveniently forget.

[ABC]

Here's how to argue the issue with a liberal media member:

http://www.redstate.com/moe_lane/2009/04/25/liz-cheney-breaks-nora-odonnell-on-torture-discussion

[Denny Crane]

I don’t have time to read this entire thread but I think this article by Hanson should put some things in perspective with regard to this torture “issue”:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDdlNTdkMGIwZWVmMWM1NGIyODdiOWYzMDdmODlhNWE=&w=MA==

P.S. My building in NY, about one hour ago, was “buzzed” by a large commercial aircraft followed closely by a military jet. And when I write buzzed – I mean I felt I could reach out and touch the belly of the aircraft – which eventually turned South down the Hudson with its “escort”. I don’t know why this happened but it brought back some swell memories – memories that it appears some in this country would like to conveniently forget.

http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/military.jets.nyc.2.995375.html

[Maggie]

I don’t have time to read this entire thread but I think this article by Hanson should put some things in perspective with regard to this torture “issue”:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDdlNTdkMGIwZWVmMWM1NGIyODdiOWYzMDdmODlhNWE=&w=MA==

P.S. My building in NY, about one hour ago, was “buzzed” by a large commercial aircraft followed closely by a military jet. And when I write buzzed – I mean I felt I could reach out and touch the belly of the aircraft – which eventually turned South down the Hudson with its “escort”. I don’t know why this happened but it brought back some swell memories – memories that it appears some in this country would like to conveniently forget.

http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts....2.995375.html

1. A photo-op? What a brilliant idea;

2. I don’t think it would have been too much trouble to notify the security offices of the buildings in lower Manhattan (where I work) of their intention, which has been the standard practice in the past;

3. They could have done themselves one better by staging their photo-op on April 1st.

:roll: