Charlottesville riots

[wufan]

As you pointed out, Margaret Sanger ( the founder of a Planned Parenthood) went much farther than ABORTION. She actually was so racist that she thought that black men and women should be steralized for the good of the human race. That is the legacy and foundation that PP was built on. The current videos that show the immorality of PP leaders selling babies that have been aborted are the current state of an organization built by an immoral leader (Sanger).

I can't see our liberal friends trying to defend what Sanger built

Just to be clear, she never "advocated" for forced sterilization of any races. She advocated for voluntary sterilization of the poor; and she did this for four reasons:

To liberate women from the inslavement of motherhood.

Because poor people could not afford children and they were a burden on society.

She was obsessed with the notion that there was not enough land/resources/food for the worlds growing population.

She wanted to breed a superior human race.

She also happened to believe in a Darwinian racial hierarchy, and from that, she targeted her clinics in poor immigrant and black neighborhoods.

[shockmonster]

Just to be clear, she never "advocated" for forced sterilization of any races. She advocated for voluntary sterilization of the poor; and she did this for four reasons:

To liberate women from the inslavement of motherhood.

Because poor people could not afford children and they were a burden on society.

She was obsessed with the notion that there was not enough land/resources/food for the worlds growing population.

She wanted to breed a superior human race.

She also happened to believe in a Darwinian racial hierarchy, and from that, she targeted her clinics in poor immigrant and black neighborhoods.

I have seen some sources that she spoke about her eugenic beliefs at KKK rallies and she advocated forced sterilization of the blind, deaf, epileptics, mentally slow, and mentally ill people (this was not uncommon during the 30s and 40s.

[Aargh]

Planned Parenthood does reduce the number of children who would be born into poverty. That reduces the number of welfare babies we, as a nation, have to support. It's probably cheaper to fund PP than to fund the extra welfare babies that would be born if PP were defunded.

[pinstripers]

Planned Parenthood does reduce the number of children who would be born into poverty. That reduces the number of welfare babies we, as a nation, have to support. It's probably cheaper to fund PP than to fund the extra welfare babies that would be born if PP were defunded.

Sterilization would do that as well.

[wufan]

Planned Parenthood does reduce the number of children who would be born into poverty. That reduces the number of welfare babies we, as a nation, have to support. It's probably cheaper to fund PP than to fund the extra welfare babies that would be born if PP were defunded.

It probably is an economic benefit. There are other economic benefits that could be had through other means that I would not consider.

[pinstripers]

It probably is an economic benefit. There are other economic benefits that could be had through other means that I would not consider.

We could just go shoot all of the poor kids, for example.

[CBB_Fan]

Not sure that there is a moral equivalence here, but for some reason recent readings on Margaret Sanger made me think about the removal of confederate statues.

For those that don't know, Margaret Sanger was a major proponent of birth control in the first half of the 20th century. Her second husband was exceedingly wealthy and funded her free clinics in the inner cities and her publications to spread her views. She was socialist, a Darwinist, and a major proponent of eugenics (forced sterilization). Her first two clinics were set up in ethnic minority neighborhoods of NYC. She believed that aborigines were one step above chimpanzees and unable to control their sexual urges except by police force. Slavs, Jews, and Negroes (her words) were one step above the aborigines. By placing a clinic in Harlem, she felt that she could help to stop the propagation of negroes. When the local population was concerned about the forced sterilization, she hired black staff to help ease their concern. She also enlisted black ministers to support her As she says, "We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."

Margaret Sanger went on to found Planned Parenthood, which is the number one killer of black American babies today (about 500,000 annually, or 19 million since Roe v Wade). In the 300 year history of slave trade in America, about 1.5 million blacks died due to the slave trade. Why aren't planned parenthood clinics at risk of being torn down due to the horrible racist ideology it represents?

First of all, I'm aware of why Margaret Sanger is coming up. Mark Levin brings it up fairly consistently whenever the Republican Party gets accused of racism. He did so in 2015, for instance, and had a multi-day special on it after Charlottesville.

The difference between Planned Parenthood and the white nationalist groups in the news is not historical, but modern. People aren't attacking confederate statues purely because of their historical connection to white supremacist movements like the Lost Cause, but because they've become connected to modern white supremacist groups.

This difference is highlighted in the how neo-Confederates glorify and justify their past, while Planned Parenthood has published statements against Sanger's work:

However, it is true that Margaret Sanger made a speech on birth control to a women’s auxiliary branch of the Ku Klux Klan in Silver Lake, New Jersey, in 1926. Planned Parenthood strongly disagrees with Sanger’s decision to address an organization that spreads hatred.

Planned Parenthood acknowledges these major flaws in Sanger’s views — and we believe that they are wrong [referencing the endorsement of the 1927 Buck v. Bell decision along with incentives for the voluntary hospitalization, regulations against the immigration of the "feebleminded," and placing undesirables on farms]

It should also be pointed out that Margaret Sanger never advocated for abortion, as throughout her life time the practice was unsafe and often resulted in the death of both mother and child. Even if you think Planned Parenthood's practice of abortion is racist, it is not a practice that originated with Sanger.

Sanger also was against the eugenicists of her time, those she agreed in principle with many of their methods. Those promoting eugenics generally believed that healthy and “fit” women (i.e. racially superior) should not practice contraception or family planning, while Sanger's philosophy was that all women should make their own choices about their reproduction.

“Eugenists imply or insist that a woman’sfirst duty is to the state; we contend that herduty to herself is her first duty to the state.We maintain that a woman possessing anadequate knowledge of her reproductivefunctions is the best judge of the time andconditions under which her child should bebrought into the world. We further maintainthat it is her right, regardless of all otherconsiderations, to determine whether sheshall bear children or not, and how manychildren she shall bear if she chooses tobecome a mother. … Only upon a free, selfdeterminingmotherhood can rest anyunshakable structure of racial betterment” - Sanger 1919

Sanger did not advocate for forced sterilization of the able-bodied, whether white or black. She did support incentives voluntary sterilization of those with hereditary diseases and did support the 1927 Buck v. Bell decision, both of which are now condemned by Planned Parenthood. Her clinic in Harlem did not practice forced sterilization, but instead offered contraceptives and family planning; it was widely praised by black newspapers, churches, the black activists (W.E.B Dubois). For further info about her motives, see private letters to Albert Lasker below:

“[I want to help ] a group notoriously underprivileged and handicapped to a large measure by a ‘caste’ system that operates as an added weight upon their efforts to get a fair share of the better things in life. To give them the means of helping themselves is perhaps the richest gift of all. We believe birth control knowledge brought to this group, is the most direct, constructive aid that can be given them to improve their immediate situation” Sanger -1939

In summary, many beliefs and practices are wrongly attributed to Margaret Sanger, and those that are accurate and reprehensible are explicitly condemned by the modern Planned Parenthood. The same cannot be said of modern white supremacist groups and their association with the Lost Cause movement.

The modern Planned Parenthood explicitly condemns the racist actions and beliefs of its founders. The modern white supremacist movement explicitly endorses the racist actions and beliefs of the older movement that erected the confederate statues. And even then, it is not fair to compare Margaret Sanger to the Lost Cause movement. Sanger's beliefs are racist compared to the modern world, while the Lost Cause went over and above even during their own day. Just like how Lincoln was far less racist than Jefferson Davis, but still had quotes like "There is a natural disgust in the minds of nearly all white people to the idea of indiscriminate amalgamation of the white and black races," it is important to understand the context and not merely judge with today's standards.

[wufan]

I mostly agree with the above.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

"We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."

That quote is constantly used by the pro-life side out of context in order to mean the exact opposite of what Sanger was communicating. She didn't want a falsehood to go out, and she was proactively trying to address how to stop people from falsely claiming she wanted to exterminate Negros.

@wufan:, I'm not trying to be critical of you, because you are far from the first pro-lifer I've seen be wrong about this.

Also, I say all this as someone who is strongly pro-life. But I'm pro-truth as well.

[pinstripers]

context?

[shockmonster]

That quote is constantly used by the pro-life side out of context in order to mean the exact opposite of what Sanger was communicating. She didn't want a falsehood to go out, and she was proactively trying to address how to stop people from falsely claiming she wanted to exterminate Negros.

@wufan:, I'm not trying to be critical of you, because you are far from the first pro-lifer I've seen be wrong about this.

Also, I say all this as someone who is strongly pro-life. But I'm pro-truth as well.

You can white wash Sanger's actions if you wish. But if you really read about her, she was a wealthy ELITIST who felt like she knew more about what was good for others than they did. She was hardly a servant who lived among the less fortunate to help them. However, she felt better about herself because of what she did. That doesn't say she was an evil person but instead a person who wanted to do good and was misguided in her methods.

[wufan]

context?

It was a letter to a supporter on how to get the word out so that the "negros" would be on board for her new clinics in the south.

Sanger absolutely wanted forced sterilization of certain populations per many of her writings, but she never went as far as stating that the black population was to be targeted. She just wanted more conversation on who should be targeted and then proceeded to set up clinics in African American population centers.

Those are the facts. I don't expect everyone to attribute the same motives.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

It was a letter to a supporter on how to get the word out so that the "negros" would be on board for her new clinics in the south.

Sanger absolutely wanted forced sterilization of certain populations per many of her writings, but she never went as far as stating that the black population was to be targeted. She just wanted more conversation on who should be targeted and then proceeded to set up clinics in African American population centers.

Those are the facts. I don't expect everyone to attribute the same motives.

Those are SORT OF the facts. She advocated for compulsory sterilization of the "profoundly retarded." It was never a racial issue for her and in fact she outright rejected sterilization based on race. For those of able mind, she felt they should take personal responsibility for reproduction, but also felt like they should have the tools they needed to limit reproduction--including birth control which was not allowed at that time. She believed poor people and lessor educated people should limit their procreation, but she also believed in educating the informing these populations to make responsible reproductive decisions. She was absolutely elitist and had troubling views of the poor and uneducated, but the light in which you cast her is not supported by the actual facts.

Oh, and she did not found Planned Parenthood. She founded an organization which later became Planned Parenthood. A minor but important distinction. Planned Parenthood did not begin providing abortions until 1970, 4 years after Sanger's death. She continually spoke out against abortion and said it would not be needed if everyone had adequate access to safe and cheap birth control options.

This thread sure took a wild tangent.

[wufan]

Those are SORT OF the facts. She advocated for compulsory sterilization of the "profoundly retarded." It was never a racial issue for her and in fact she outright rejected sterilization based on race. For those of able mind, she felt they should take personal responsibility for reproduction, but also felt like they should have the tools they needed to limit reproduction--including birth control which was not allowed at that time. She believed poor people and lessor educated people should limit their procreation, but she also believed in educating the informing these populations to make responsible reproductive decisions. She was absolutely elitist and had troubling views of the poor and uneducated, but the light in which you cast her is not supported by the actual facts.

Oh, and she did not found Planned Parenthood. She founded an organization which later became Planned Parenthood. A minor but important distinction. Planned Parenthood did not begin providing abortions until 1970, 4 years after Sanger's death. She continually spoke out against abortion and said it would not be needed if everyone had adequate access to safe and cheap birth control options.

This thread sure took a wild tangent.

Not disagreeing with the factuality of your take, and I don't see you as disputing the factuality of mine. The only thing that distinguishes the verbiage we used was attributed motive.

As I see it (and I'm absolutely okay with disagreement on this), she actively sought forced sterilization of criminals, mentally ill, and low IQ individuals. She expressed the desire to determine what other maladies also deserved forced sterilization. I have to ask, after the criminals, mentally ill, and stupid people, who else could she mean? She promoted voluntary sterilization of the poor. She set up clinics for voluntary sterilization in poor ethnic neighborhoods, most of which were black communities.

She did not advocate for abortion, but did state that if her proposals were put to use, that abortion would no longer be necessary.

So, I attribute one motive, perhaps correct. You attribute another equally plausible motive.

Sanger was absolutely infatuated with over-population as well. That should also be taken into account when trying to ascribe motive.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Not disagreeing with the factuality of your take, and I don't see you as disputing the factuality of mine. The only thing that distinguishes the verbiage we used was attributed motive.

As I see it (and I'm absolutely okay with disagreement on this), she actively sought forced sterilization of criminals, mentally ill, and low IQ individuals. She expressed the desire to determine what other maladies also deserved forced sterilization. I have to ask, after the criminals, mentally ill, and stupid people, who else could she mean? She promoted voluntary sterilization of the poor. She set up clinics for voluntary sterilization in poor ethnic neighborhoods, most of which were black communities.

She did not advocate for abortion, but did state that if her proposals were put to use, that abortion would no longer be necessary.

So, I attribute one motive, perhaps correct. You attribute another equally plausible motive.

Sanger was absolutely infatuated with over-population as well. That should also be taken into account when trying to ascribe motive.

You're right, I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with your post. I was just pointing out that were some additional facts which, if originally included, might paint a slightly different picture of Sanger.

She was definitely an interesting individual with astoundingly controversial opinions. Determining motives from her words and actions is a complex and probably impossible task. Similar to assigning those same motives to an organization that can trace its roots to one she had a role in founding.