Single Payer

[MoValley John]

Sure and I agree that for life expectancy as a whole. But that has nothing to do with infant mortality or maternal mortality.

Yes it does. Have you ever watched Springer? The decisions made by parents directly influences the outcomes of pregnancy. Hell, watch Live PD, there's a thread about it in the off topic section. You don't go a week without seeing a pregnant hooker, drinking a beer and smoking outside the Palmetto Inn.

Neonatal icu is located adjacent to where my wife works, I see this **** every time I visit. Sickening.

[MoValley John]

Crack babies, meth babies, opioid addicted babies. Fetal alcohol syndrome. On and on and on.

[ShockCrazy]

Yes it does. Have you ever watched Springer? The decisions made by parents directly influences the outcomes of pregnancy. Hell, watch Live PD, there's a thread about it in the off topic section. You don't go a week without seeing a pregnant hooker, drinking a beer and smoking outside the Palmetto Inn.

Neonatal icu is located adjacent to where my wife works, I see this **** every time I visit. Sickening.

Do you think that we have a higher rate of that than other countries? Cause I don't. Every country has their own people of this type.

[MoValley John]

Do you think that we have a higher rate of that than other countries? Cause I don't. Every country has their own people of this type.

Yes, we do. We also suck at prenatal care.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

That depends on your metric. Quantifying the value liberty is a tricky endeavor. People have been known to demonstrate it was worth more than their lives.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Perhaps I wasn't clear in my statement. I'm merely saying uninhibited capitalism without government intervention is not always the best method to provide goods and services. It depends on the situation. For years the best method to send a letter across town or across the country was the USPS, a quasi-governmental agency. Having tens, or hundreds, or thousands of private postal services would have been impractical. Likewise, having every mile of roadway in this country a private toll road also makes no sense.

It seems to me that ShockerPrez is advocating the free market is a fix for everything, especially healthcare. I disagree.

[ShockerPrez]

I'm going to expand on MVJ, kinda and ask a question.

So, providing healthcare to the U.S. is like trying to keep your 2 year old in a high chair who has been snacking all day and isn't hungry. We are just a different animal than other nations. Can we all agree with that? We are spread out all over the place, we participate in poor health choices, from diet to driving, to sky-diving, to whatever. We have guns, etc. All the great things that freedom provide.

It's effing hard to statistically keep our mortality rate, life ecpectancy as high, etc as other nations who don't have as many nutjobs and dipshits as we do. Would that be fair to say?

[ShockCrazy]

Yes, we do. We also suck at prenatal care.

We do suck a prenatal care, but I also think that correlates strongly with our healthcare system. I would say we do have issues with opiods but that is also a consequence of medical companies pushing for profits.

[ShockCrazy]

I'm going to expand on MVJ, kinda and ask a question.

So, providing healthcare to the U.S. is like trying to keep your 2 year old in a high chair who has been snacking all day and isn't hungry. We are just a different animal than other nations. Can we all agree with that? We are spread out all over the place, we participate in poor health choices, from diet to driving, to sky-diving, to whatever. We have guns, etc. All the great things that freedom provide.

It's effing hard to statistically keep our mortality rate, life ecpectancy as high, etc as other nations who don't have as many nutjobs and dipshits as we do. Would that be fair to say?

I really disagree with the theory we have more dumbasses than anywhere else. There are dumbasses EVERYWHERE. When we are dealing with large populations like this it comes out in the wash. Go to shitty areas of England, such as Liverpool, and tell me there aren't as many shitty trashy people as here, trust me I've been to the area around Anfield, it give the worst trailer parks a run for it's money.

[MoValley John]

To swing way left, a big part of our problem with meth babies and crack babies is our flawed drug policies. Slowly, municipalities are implementing drug courts, diversion programs and the like, where cleaning up the junkie is taking precident over incarceration. Unfortunately, our current system encourages pregnant women to hide their addictions, rather than treating them. We end up with more ****ed up babies.

This is just one layer of the onion.

[ShockerPrez]

I really disagree with the theory we have more dumbasses than anywhere else. There are dumbasses EVERYWHERE. When we are dealing with large populations like this it comes out in the wash. Go to shitty areas of England, such as Liverpool, and tell me there aren't as many shitty trashy people as here, trust me I've been to the area around Anfield, it give the worst trailer parks a run for it's money.

Yes, but we have 325 million people spread out over 1000s of miles. Its a scale unlike European countries.

Delivering healthcare on our scale compared to Europe is apples to oranges, IMO.

[ShockerPrez]

Anyway. My point is, how does single payor make our healthcare system better, independent of cost?

Not worried about cost. How does our life expetancy and infant mortality rate improve when single payor is the law?

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I'm going to expand on MVJ, kinda and ask a question.

So, providing healthcare to the U.S. is like trying to keep your 2 year old in a high chair who has been snacking all day and isn't hungry. We are just a different animal than other nations. Can we all agree with that? We are spread out all over the place, we participate in poor health choices, from diet to driving, to sky-diving, to whatever. We have guns, etc. All the great things that freedom provide.

It's effing hard to statistically keep our mortality rate, life ecpectancy as high, etc as other nations who don't have as many nutjobs and dipshits as we do. Would that be fair to say?

I don't think that's fair to say. Canada, Russia, and China are spread out all over the place. Brazil is only slightly smaller than the US. There are 62 countries that have a lower population density than we do.

And "all the great things freedom provides"? Really? According to the Cato Institute, the US ranks #23 in the world for "freedom." Freedom has nothing to do with the lifestyles we lead.

As far as nutjobs and dipshits, we certainly have our fair share. But I don't know if we'd rank high in that metric either. We do rank really high in percent of population incarcerated, though. 'Merica!

[ShockCrazy]

Yes, but we have 325 million people spread out over 1000s of miles. Its a scale unlike European countries.

Delivering healthcare on our scale compared to Europe is apples to oranges, IMO.

There are definitely things that our scale makes difficult mostly due to the heterogeneous nature of the country and needs are different across the country. I do not believe health care is one. I don't believe that people in New York have different expectations for healthcare and it's outcomes than California or here in Kansas.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

Anyway. My point is, how does single payor make our healthcare system better, independent of cost?

Not worried about cost. How does our life expetancy and infant mortality rate improve when single payor is the law?

Simple, more access to healthcare by the lower economic classes. Single payer probably won't affect you or I, Mr. Prez, but it would affect the poor. Our system isn't broken because somebody making $200,000 can't see a doctor. It's because somebody making $20,000 can't afford to.

[MoValley John]

We do suck a prenatal care, but I also think that correlates strongly with our healthcare system. I would say we do have issues with opiods but that is also a consequence of medical companies pushing for profits.

Except......... Opioids are cheap. Drug companies would be better served coming up with more expensive pain meds if profit was the motive. A big problem with opioid addiction isn't the drug companies, but once again, drug policy. Doc's prescribe these drugs because they are needed, but weening people off is difficult and short of rehab which creates a stigma, people begin to self medicate. We now have a bunch of doc's that won't adequately treat pain, and another group that treats pain, but expects patients to go cold turkey after 12-16 months of hydrocodone. It doesn't work.