Georgia 6th District Election Results

[MoValley John]

Why are you obessed?

Quit stealing my diagnosis!

[wufan]

Why are you obessed?

I actually enjoy debating with opposing ideals because it does one (or two) of three things:

1. Allows me to educate someone else.
2. Allows someone else to educate me.
3. Strengthens an argument for me or my debater in the future.

I wouldn't say it's an obsession with you.

Edit:

Two things I've learned from discussions with you over the last several months:

1. Always read your sources thoroughly because a title can be misleading and may not actually support your argument.

2. Russian bots that posted politically inflammatory remarks on social media are a REAL THING. I had no idea.

[wufan]

What are the chances that the posts to the Politics Forum not show up in the "New Posts". We are inundated on TV. We are inundated in the paper. It seems unnecessary that we are inundated on Shockernet by the unending left/right arguments. Those that wish to obsess can simply click on the Politics forum without submitting the rest of us to the continual diatribes.

Fair!

[Kung Wu]

Then you should understand that the Goldwater Rule makes it unethical for a practicing psychologist to make public diagnoses of people they haven't met and interviewed in person.

Ouch.

[Kung Wu]

Why are you obessed?

Cuz I eatted too much.

[WstateU]

[Kung Wu]

This thread: Obama's fault.

[SB Shock]

This thread: Obama's fault.

Politico is blaming Pelosi

Pelosi faces growing doubts among Dems after Georgia loss

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and other top Democrats put a brave face on Wednesday morning after a disappointing loss in the Georgia special election, yet there is no disguising the unhappiness in the party ranks.

“I think you’d have to be an idiot to think we could win the House with Pelosi at the top,” said Rep. Filemon Vela (D-Texas), who supported Pelosi in her last leadership race. “Nancy Pelosi is not the only reason that Ossoff lost. But she certainly is one of the reasons.”

And Democrats — despite the fervor among their base — are being forced to acknowledge that an anti-Trump message is not going to be enough by itself to win in 2018.

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/21/nancy-pelosi-fallout-georgia-special-election-239804

[jdshock]

Trump is really great at getting his supporters to believe he's playing "4D Chess." As in, whatever strange policies he proposes are just a way to make liberals look dumb.

The newest of these is the solar panels on the border wall. Trump supporters are saying "HA! Now liberals can't possibly oppose the wall or else they'll be hypocrites since they support solar panels."

So, lest anyone here feel the need to call a liberal opposed to the solar wall a hypocrite, here are some of the first issues that come to mind:

1. You can support one thing, and oppose another, and not be a hypocrite for opposing the second more than you support the first. Ex: "jdshock, I'm going to threaten your family, but I'm also going to offer you delicious food." I might reasonably say that deal isn't worth it, even though in most instances I'm a huge supporter of delicious food.
2. Vertical solar panels are a lot less effective than horizontal ones. If we're going to spend billions on alternative energy infrastructure, why not spend it on the most effective version?
3. If it's possible for alternative energy to have a positive return for the US government, why is this his first proposal of a massive investment in alternative energy?
4. Solar panels are really expensive. There's a reason that the government's involvement in solar to this point has mostly been a 30% tax credit for individuals. When compounded with number 2, there's just no way these panels have a short pay off period.
5. And this is really just a combination of 1, 2, and 3, there's literally no reason to combine the wall with solar panels. If the solar panels will pay for themselves (in a relatively inefficient set up), then we should be investing in them separately from the wall. The wall will only make it more expensive, more inefficient, and more time consuming to build.

[ShockerPrez]

I dont think many people think trump is playing 4d chess. I think most people think he says stupid ****, and shouldnt. He needs to break that habit.


I dont think its any different than when Obama said stupid ****, and a few people contorted and tried to slant it as brilliant nuance. When most people thought he was saying stupid ****.

We need to understand that our presidents are as full of **** as everyone else and stop believing they are anything more than politicians. They arent anything special. Just because libs bowed to Obama, dont infer that conservatives adore Trump. I dont.

[MoValley John]

I dont think many people think trump is playing 4d chess. I think most people think he says stupid ****, and shouldnt. He needs to break that habit.


I dont think its any different than when Obama said stupid ****, and a few people contorted and tried to slant it as brilliant nuance. When most people thought he was saying stupid ****.

We need to understand that our presidents are as full of **** as everyone else and stop believing they are anything more than politicians. They arent anything special. Just because libs bowed to Obama, dont infer that conservatives adore Trump. I dont.

Exactly.

[ShockingButTrue]

I dont think many people think trump is playing 4d chess. I think most people think he says stupid ****, and shouldnt. He needs to break that habit.


I dont think its any different than when Obama said stupid ****, and a few people contorted and tried to slant it as brilliant nuance. When most people thought he was saying stupid ****.

We need to understand that our presidents are as full of **** as everyone else and stop believing they are anything more than politicians. They arent anything special. Just because libs bowed to Obama, dont infer that conservatives adore Trump. I dont.

This all the way. I've heard Obama speak and thought it sounded literally like some nonsensical bull----, more than once. Then with all the pregnant pausing going along with it... Look up some of his stuff on Youtube. It's like "what the hell is he saying?"

[wufan]

Trump is really great at getting his supporters to believe he's playing "4D Chess." As in, whatever strange policies he proposes are just a way to make liberals look dumb.

The newest of these is the solar panels on the border wall. Trump supporters are saying "HA! Now liberals can't possibly oppose the wall or else they'll be hypocrites since they support solar panels."

So, lest anyone here feel the need to call a liberal opposed to the solar wall a hypocrite, here are some of the first issues that come to mind:

1. You can support one thing, and oppose another, and not be a hypocrite for opposing the second more than you support the first. Ex: "jdshock, I'm going to threaten your family, but I'm also going to offer you delicious food." I might reasonably say that deal isn't worth it, even though in most instances I'm a huge supporter of delicious food.
2. Vertical solar panels are a lot less effective than horizontal ones. If we're going to spend billions on alternative energy infrastructure, why not spend it on the most effective version?
3. If it's possible for alternative energy to have a positive return for the US government, why is this his first proposal of a massive investment in alternative energy?
4. Solar panels are really expensive. There's a reason that the government's involvement in solar to this point has mostly been a 30% tax credit for individuals. When compounded with number 2, there's just no way these panels have a short pay off period.
5. And this is really just a combination of 1, 2, and 3, there's literally no reason to combine the wall with solar panels. If the solar panels will pay for themselves (in a relatively inefficient set up), then we should be investing in them separately from the wall. The wall will only make it more expensive, more inefficient, and more time consuming to build.

Being opposed to solar panels on a wall is all well and good. I agree that it's probably a bad idea. Staying on the energy side of things, are you opposed to more nuclear energy? Hydroelectric?

[jdshock]

Being opposed to solar panels on a wall is all well and good. I agree that it's probably a bad idea. Staying on the energy side of things, are you opposed to more nuclear energy? Hydroelectric?

I even like solar panels. I think the tax credit in place is great. I just think the proposal is silly.

I don't know about nuclear energy. On the one hand, being nervous about nuclear energy is probably not totally justified. On the other, when nuclear power plants have failed, it's been really, really bad. I also think the environmental implications of nuclear are possibly bad. We don't really know what to do with the waste. I'm also not totally sold on massively investing in new infrastructure for something that is not renewable in nature. I get that we would never, ever run out of uranium, but we also thought the same thing about coal or oil. Anyway, I'm definitely not a huge advocate for it, but I'm not out here protesting it either.

Hydroelectric is another one that makes me nervous. I've heard the impacts on wildlife are much worse from hydroelectric than from some other renewable options, but I don't know. I also know hydroelectric is cheaper, but I don't know if it will continue to be substantially cheaper once solar really has a chance to grow.

[CBB_Fan]

If we are seriously saying that Obama is just as dumb and poor-spoken as Trump, we might as well declare the American experiment a wrap and sell the colonies back to France, UK, and Spain for a quick buck.

Trump speaks and writes at somewhere between a 3rd and a 6th grade level. That isn't hyperbole or an attack, it is a fact. He is a terrible speaker because of his exceptionally poor grammar skills and vocabulary. It isn't that he says dumb things sometimes, it is that he very rarely says things as eloquently as the average middle school student.

I'm sure if you look you can find TV evidence of most modern Presidents stammered stupidly or saying X when they meant Y. That isn't what I'm talking about. What you won't find is a video with Trump going in-depth on a topic with good vocabulary and grammar.

At no point since starting to run for President has Trump shown he deeply understands an issue, any issue. At no point has gone beyond saying things are "very, very good" or "very, very bad." At no point has he shown that words like superfluous are even in his vocabulary.

Trump changes thought in the middle sentences, tortures syntax, and rarely delivers complete sentences or paragraphs. When he uses independent clause he gets side-tracked, confusing himself and everyone listening. He repeats himself, over and over.

Not to pull out the massive uncle quote, here is a random example of a Trump quote from before the election:

“People want the border wall. My base definitely wants the border wall, my base really wants it — you’ve been to many of the rallies. OK, the thing they want more than anything is the wall. My base, which is a big base; I think my base is 45 percent. You know, it’s funny. The Democrats, they have a big advantage in the Electoral College. Big, big, big advantage. … The Electoral College is very difficult for a Republican to win, and I will tell you, the people want to see it. They want to see the wall.”

The repetition is obvious. Border, base, border, wall, base, base, base, base, big, big, big, wall. And this isn't a worst-of moment, it is just how he speaks constantly unless he is reading from a pre-written script. Even Obama's most cringeworthy statements typically had correct grammar, used a wide variety of words, and were complete sentences. Take the following:

And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations

This was one of his biggest gaffes, and yet it is a complete sentence with far less repetition than a normal Trump quote. He uses words like antipathy and phrases like anti-trade sentiment. His other gaffes are similar; they are dumb because what he said, not because he didn't say it in English.

Trump is one of the least intellectually capable public figures I have ever seen, and he wasn't always this way. I will never understand the people that hear him speak and come away with the impression that he knows what he is talking about.

For reference, the above was written at about a 9th grade level, which was a deliberate choice on my part. Could you imagine Trump writing or speaking at that level? I couldn't.