Educational Discipline Problems in Decline

[shockmonster]

EDIT: I should have entitled this thread EDUCATIONAL DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS INCREASING

I saw this story this morning in the Eagle. While this issue may be more of a Social issue and not categorized as a political issue, the solutions may be political. While this article is about Wichita dealing with this issue, I have heard from several teachers that this problem (discipline problems among children in their schools is getting worse too) is hitting suburban schools also. One may feel that this issue doesn't affect them, but as stated in the article, these kids are in the community too, and their discipline problems don't end at the door of the school. Notice that Kindergartners Out of School Suspensions have doubled in the past 4 years. It also points out that Mental Illnesses are increasing dramatically among school age children. We've already discussed that homeless children in our schools (living out of cars and hotels) are increasing. Future social problems could affect everyone in the community and surrounding communities.

What do you feel is the source of this problem?

Behavior is getting worse in Wichita classrooms, data shows
By Suzanne Perez Tobias
stobias@wichita:eagle.com

Discipline problems have increased substantially in Wichita schools over the past four years, particularly among the district’s youngest students, according to data obtained by The Eagle.
The situation is frustrating teachers, prompting some of them to leave the profession, and has inspired a new program aimed at teaching elementary school students how to pay attention, follow directions and control their emotions.

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/news/local/edu...#storylink=cpy

[wufan]

On suspensions: I'm curious if the awareness of bullying is increasing the suspensions, and if that is the case, I wonder if the schools are acting much harsher in bullying cases as well as more broadly defining the behavior that constitutes the term. I'm thinking about the expanded diagnosis of autism as a corolary. The reason we have more autistics now is because the diagnosis greatly expanded.

On mental illness, see above for possible reasoning, though I'm less prone to lean that way than I am with bullying since there hasn't been a movement on the subject.

[mini-shock]

My thoughts (as opposed to facts):

More "mental health" = more teachers being influencers in getting children on ADHD and ADD medications. These teachers scream ""ADD"" when kids don't listen or don't care.
Homeless youth = maybe they were always there, but never in the school system. So this could be a good thing. I really don't see homless kids in school as a negative.
When Kindergarten classrooms are 30 kids or more, how can one teacher effectively serve without losing structure. They are kids....kids only have one purpose but to push(explore) the limits of their surroundings.
This is the same President of the Teachers Union of Wichita that admitted to threatening students with physical violence. This President also taught Psychology at WIchita SE. If he is going to whine that students are behaving poorly, his own actions reduce his credibility. But sure, just get those kids some opiods and threaten to beat em up when they act a fool.

Also what a uncool move to insinuate that the homeless, poor, and hungry are the reason behind behavior increases.

http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Footage-claims-to-show-teachers-union-pres-claiming-to-have-threatened-students-384781931.html

[shockmonster]

My thoughts (as opposed to facts):

More "mental health" = more teachers being influencers in getting children on ADHD and ADD medications. These teachers scream ""ADD"" when kids don't listen or don't care.
Homeless youth = maybe they were always there, but never in the school system. So this could be a good thing. I really don't see homless kids in school as a negative.
When Kindergarten classrooms are 30 kids or more, how can one teacher effectively serve without losing structure. They are kids....kids only have one purpose but to push(explore) the limits of their surroundings.
This is the same President of the Teachers Union of Wichita that admitted to threatening students with physical violence. This President also taught Psychology at WIchita SE. If he is going to whine that students are behaving poorly, his own actions reduce his credibility. But sure, just get those kids some opiods and threaten to beat em up when they act a fool.

Also what a uncool move to insinuate that the homeless, poor, and hungry are the reason behind behavior increases.

http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Foo...384781931.html

Did you even read the article? Hard Data is what it said supports that a problem exists, not teachers opinions (although the journalist mentioned numerous opinions and possible answers). The article also mentioned serious crimes such as weapons and battery charges increasing. You centered your argument around your dislike for a past teacher who as union President is bring teacher concerns regarding these serious issues before the BOE. This particular issue isn't about your former teachers relationship with you. It's about all of the kids who don't misbehave and the time it takes for school professionals to deal with these problems that take away from teaching and learning. I think that it is difficult for anyone to really know why serious student behaviors are increasing. The people in this article are trying to give possible reasons but really don't know and you dont know either. My concern is for my grandchildren and our society.

[MoValley John]

My thoughts (as opposed to facts):

More "mental health" = more teachers being influencers in getting children on ADHD and ADD medications. These teachers scream ""ADD"" when kids don't listen or don't care.
Homeless youth = maybe they were always there, but never in the school system. So this could be a good thing. I really don't see homless kids in school as a negative.
When Kindergarten classrooms are 30 kids or more, how can one teacher effectively serve without losing structure. They are kids....kids only have one purpose but to push(explore) the limits of their surroundings.
This is the same President of the Teachers Union of Wichita that admitted to threatening students with physical violence. This President also taught Psychology at WIchita SE. If he is going to whine that students are behaving poorly, his own actions reduce his credibility. But sure, just get those kids some opiods and threaten to beat em up when they act a fool.

Also what a uncool move to insinuate that the homeless, poor, and hungry are the reason behind behavior increases.

http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Foo...384781931.html

Opiods are not prescribed for ADD/ADHD, Adderall and other amphetamines, are. Amphetamines have a paradoxal effect for people with ADD/ADHD. There is also the risk of rebound, where once the stimulant wears off, the patient becomes overly hyperactive. Exercize can reduce or eliminate rebound.

You obviously have zero understanding of how ADD/ADHD is diagnosed or treated.

[wufan]

Interesting quote from the article:

"In increasing numbers, they say, children arrive in Wichita schools from homes of poverty or traumatic situations, including substance abuse, violence, hunger or neglect."

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/news/local/edu...#storylink=cpy

Substance abuse, violence, and hunger have been on a steady decline since the 90s. I would bet the cause is something other than these things.

[shockmonster]

Interesting quote from the article:

"In increasing numbers, they say, children arrive in Wichita schools from homes of poverty or traumatic situations, including substance abuse, violence, hunger or neglect."

Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/news/local/edu...#storylink=cpy

Substance abuse, violence, and hunger have been on a steady decline since the 90s. I would bet the cause is something other than these things.

Where did you get this last line? I didn't see it in the article. Are these Wichita statistics? Kansas? Nationwide statistics?

"Substance abuse, violence, and hunger have been on a steady decline since the 90s. I would bet the cause is something other than these things"

[wufan]

Where did you get this last line? I didn't see it in the article. Are these Wichita statistics? Kansas? Nationwide statistics?

"Substance abuse, violence, and hunger have been on a steady decline since the 90s. I would bet the cause is something other than these things"

Those are national and worldwide statistical generalizations. Because increased incidents of school expulsion are also a national phenomenon, I would assume that Wichita isn't seeing the inverse (although it is possible). Substance abuse is a broad term. More people are using marijuana and meth than previously, but almost all other substances are down. Basically, without data that shows a large increase in hunger or substance abuse, it's hard to draw a correlation or causation to expulsion.

I would lean towards bullying awareness or possibly an increased lack of a father figure in the home as a more likely cause, but I don't have any data correlation for those hypotheses either.

[BOBB]

Where did you get this last line? I didn't see it in the article. Are these Wichita statistics? Kansas? Nationwide statistics?

"Substance abuse, violence, and hunger have been on a steady decline since the 90s. I would bet the cause is something other than these things"

White flight/Resource flight to Andover/Maize districts and private schools. When I was in school in Wichita the late 80s my class had a fair representation of the socioeconomic layers of my district. Fair to say that is no longer the case. So while the overall poverty numbers are down, the concentrations in public schools are up. In '14 61% of Sedgwick county students were on free or reduced lunch.

Even in those days there were several classes where learning was secondary to keeping control of the class. Anything not elective or AP was a crapshoot. Sometimes it was clear that known discipline problems were concentrated in a class or two. I earned my way into a few of these.

Expectations for school behavior and performance start at home. Many parents feel they have bigger fish to fry.

[MoValley John]

White flight/Resource flight to Andover/Maize districts and private schools. When I was in school in Wichita the late 80s my class had a fair representation of the socioeconomic layers of my district. Fair to say that is no longer the case. So while the overall poverty numbers are down, the concentrations in public schools are up. In '14 61% of Sedgwick county students were on free or reduced lunch.

Even in those days there were several classes where learning was secondary to keeping control of the class. Anything not elective or AP was a crapshoot. Sometimes it was clear that known discipline problems were concentrated in a class or two. I earned my way into a few of these.

Expectations for school behavior and performance start at home. Many parents feel they have bigger fish to fry.

Without regard to any of your other points, what does private schools have to do with any of this?

[BOBB]

Without regard to any of your other points, what does private schools have to do with any of this?

Those with the capacity and/or determination for achievement can and do elect to go to private school. Leaving the public schools more concentrated with the poor or disinterested. My niece now goes to private school in the same district I went to public school. Private schools are not the problem. If a tremendous public high school is outside your back door, few parents would elect for private school.

Edit: If my neighborhood school is garbage and I am a parent with resources, I have two options: move to a better district or go private. Either way, that is one more engaged family not attending the neighborhood school. The school becomes a reflection of its families and a negative feedback loop is established.

[BOBB]

I would agree with this. We love the area in Wichita that we live in as it is known for its character, however, if we have kids it will be private school or suburbs

College Hill or Riverside? :)

[MoValley John]

There are some private schools that focus on inner city didadvantaged youth that do quite well. Jesuit Academy in Omaha is one. These schools are full of neglected kids that have chosen to put education first. These schools have a sliding scale tuition and in most cases are free. The kids outperform the public schools and often, other private schools.

What this tells me is that while all of the given reasons for the struggle in education today, there are more problems, many yet to be identified. I really think disciple in the schools is lost, weak leadership exisists in administration, poor priorities of parents and many other issues cause the problem. White flight is a symptom, not a cause.

We need engaged teachers, parents that care and effective discipline and effective leadership.

Suspensions and expulsions are not disciple, just an easy way to rid a school of a problem student. It is also reactive and not proactive.

[mini-shock]

Did you even read the article?

Not hard Data. Nature of behavior are up to interpretation. Also, I don't really have an argument. It was just my thoughts. The bit about the Pres. of UTW was just factual info.

Opiods are not prescribed for ADD/ADHD, Adderall and other amphetamines, are. Amphetamines have a paradoxal effect for people with ADD/ADHD. There is also the risk of rebound, where once the stimulant wears off, the patient becomes overly hyperactive. Exercize can reduce or eliminate rebound.

You obviously have zero understanding of how ADD/ADHD is diagnosed or treated.

Yeah you caught me, amphetamines. Sorry. But my comments were to also illustrate that it is the teachers who know very little are are quick to "diagnose":.

[wufan]

Not hard Data. Nature of behavior are up to interpretation. Also, I don't really have an argument. It was just my thoughts. The bit about the Pres. of UTW was just factual info.



Yeah you caught me, amphetamines. Sorry. But my comments were to also illustrate that it is the teachers who know very little are are quick to "diagnose":.

A teachers diagnosis is worth about as much as some members posts on Shockernet and is irrelevant to the discussion.