State of Kansas Finances

[wufan]

One other story, Wufan since you brought up Brownback's unfair tax cut an)d Social Services (as you refer to public education). A teacher who lived in a town SE of Wichita in a community with a very diverse population and lots of at risk youths, shared a story with me. On a day (of no school) where teachers had conferences or inservices, students were on their own. She went home at lunch, and peeked out of her kitchen window and witnessed a band of seventh graders who were breaking down the back door of the house behind her. She recognized immediately the students who were doing this (as they were some of her students at the local middle school), and turned them to the police. Those students didn't miss any school and weren't taken away. Instead, they continued in school and probably had their hands slapped. Those students didn't have very much support going on at home (parents probably weren't employed and possibly on drugs, and I'm sure that a couple of them, ended up in the penitentiary at Lansing or some other prison. I'm not sure what it would take to reach those kids, but social dollars sure took over when they do to prison.

If this is happening in a town of 10K close to Wichita, it is happening all over our community, and if you live in Maize, Andover, and even Newton, El Dorado, or Augusta, it will happen to you too. All these little kids need is a car or perhaps they live down the street from you in McPherson.

I did not refer to public education as social services. I did refer to free summer lunches as such. Do you disagree? I don't understand your story here...should we lock up the 7th graders when school is out? What was the point?

[wufan]

This comment totally misses the point that the legislature approved the cuts to school funding to accommodate Brownback's tax plan. Those cuts are the root cause the education budget and the general fund are 10's of millions of dollars short, not 'social services over-stepping their bounds (sic)'. If you disagree with me, please provide evidence that demand for these 'social services' has increased since the tax cut.

Try being a little more objective next time. I try to stay out of these 'Kansas' discussions as I do not have contexting (neither myself or anyone in my family lives there anymore), but in this case you are so far off base as to how this happened that I felt compelled to comment.

I will say that my general observation on this whole topic is that Brownback appears to have done what Bobby Jindal did - wreck the entire economy of a state based on rich people kvetching they're paying too much in taxes.

I am not defending Brownback here. I'm saying that when you are short on money there are two things you can do: cut spending and earn more. Both should be looked at. Just because we are short, doesn't mean we should cut anything, but I think the time has come where you put everything out there on the table. I don't think it's fair to say that if we don't let the schools raise our children then the middle schoolers will break in to our houses.

[shockmonster]

I did not refer to public education as social services. I did refer to free summer lunches as such. Do you disagree? I don't understand your story here...should we lock up the 7th graders when school is out? What was the point?

I don't disagree. I mis-interpreted your point. I was also told that some schools/teachers/social workers raise money to help some of the needy kids with food, clothes, etc. that may be irrelevant but it seems to me that those teachers go beyond what I would expect.

[ShockdaWorld]

Others have already addressed this somewhat, but this is too huge not to focus on even more. Private schools get, on average, students who are:

- Much better behaved
- Come from much better in-tact families
- Significantly fewer special needs

The list could go on and on. It should be obvious that it is cheaper to run a school when you get almost exclusively "easy" students with very similar needs. Public schools have a much tougher job due to the much wider range of students walking in the door.

While I agree with all of this, I think there's one other thing that could be correlated with these, or maybe not. Most of the time in private schools, the kids are there because the parents WANT them to be there and do whatever is necessary (usually financially) to have them there, and they don't want that to go to waste. Not all parents can afford private schools, and I'm not trying to insinuate that that means they care any less or anything like that. However, there is a significant percentage (according to my public school teacher friends) of children whose parents only have their kids there in order to stay out of truancy court or as an educational daycare service, rather than really caring and trying to help their kids achieve all that they can academically.

[shockmonster]

I don't understand your story here...should we lock up the 7th graders when school is out? What was the point?

My point is that the social needs are under appreciated by many people who are not affected by these issues. Even educators at suburban and private schools don't really know about the dire social ills in our communities. I am a Conservative torn by the belief in self responsibility and these social ills.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

@ShockdaWorld, I agree that parent's have a huge role. Good parents, involved in their children's lives and education, and basically, just doing their jobs as parents, make it a million times easier for schools to educate well. Bad parents and bad family situations often have the opposite effect. Private schools inherit a significantly easier educational task than public schools. It is silly when people try to analyze private school costs and pretend that public schools could teach their kids for the same costs and to the same quality if only the public schools would get their act together. I can't believe @WuDrWu has fallen for that trap.

Horrible family situations, in my opinion, are the #1 leading hindrance in public schools today. Kids who aren't taught anything at home (from ABCs all the way through morals and behavior) are often a handful just to keep in line such that the other kids can learn. Irresponsible adults are leading to a whole new generation of problems in the schools. These aren't new problems, just old problems multiplied to a much greater degree than ever before.

[RoyalShock]

My girlfriend is an elementary school psychologist in a relatively large district. Nearly every day she has interactions with kids who have varying degrees of learning or intellectual disabilities, as well as their families. Many of the parents of these kids are not what you would call high functioning. They barely get by doing the best they can. Of course, there are also the ones who are just slackers. But without some of the programs that help these kids get decent meals and other forms of assistance, these kids are likely to suffer greatly, adding more difficulty to getting them the education they're entitled to by law.

And she doesn't even work at the schools with the most disadvantaged kids. I won't even go into the kids who have behavioral problems so severe they have to be pulled from the schools and put into a separate building where they get minimal teaching (their behavioral issues make it impossible to have an adequate learning environment). But the public schools don't have a choice but to provide some degree of "education". These things all take money. How much would you need to work with "bad" kids all day, every day? There is also a shortage of school psychologists in this area of the country, but that doesn't get the schools (or the psychs who are here) off the hook for providing federally mandated services.

Education is a mess and both the courts and legislature need to quit posturing and get it figured out. I consider myself a conservative, but when it comes to education and providing services for disadvantaged kids, we need to step up and do it right. That's not to say there aren't some inefficiencies that can't be looked at, but they're going to be a drop in the proverbial bucket.

[RoyalShock]

My point is that the social needs are under appreciated by many people who are not affected by these issues. Even educators at suburban and private schools don't really know about the dire social ills in our communities. I am a Conservative torn by the belief in self responsibility and these social ills.

As my previous post would indicate, I'm in a very similar place. Getting a different perspective via my girlfriend has caused me to think differently about some issues.

[RoyalShock]

I don't disagree. I mis-interpreted your point. I was also told that some schools/teachers/social workers raise money to help some of the needy kids with food, clothes, etc. that may be irrelevant but it seems to me that those teachers go beyond what I would expect.

I can vouch for the bolded part.

[MoValley John]

I try to stay out of these 'Kansas' discussions as I do not have contexting (neither myself or anyone in my family lives there anymore)

A bigger load of horseshit has never been spewed. You live and die discussing Kansas and Brownback. I could start a thread titled "Kansas and Brownback" and you would be the first to comment. Kansas politics or Brownback and you are on it faster than a hobo on a bottle of Ripple Red.

I'm not knocking you for participating, have at it, I'm not even going to debate your points, but be honest and don't say you try to stay out of Kansas discussions when you long ago wore out the Brownback Jindal comparisons.

[shockmonster]

I can see reasons for parents to send their kids to private schools. However, if I did this, it would be for their opportunity to attend church and be educated in a Christian setting. Kids of parents who care and who pay attention to what is happening with their children, have children who are almost always successful in public school. The public schools and their teachers are not the problem imo.

[MoValley John]

Brownback and the legislature are beginning to remind me of Bobby Jindal and Louisiana. Perhaps not as bad, but obvious he's leaving a **** hemmorrage of finances for the next guy to clean up.

Example from three weeks ago of you avoiding Kansas issues.

[wufan]

I can see reasons for parents to send their kids to private schools. However, if I did this, it would be for their opportunity to attend church and be educated in a Christian setting. Kids of parents who care and who pay attention to what is happening with their children, have children who are almost always successful in public school. The public schools and their teachers are not the problem imo.

I 100% agree.

[wufan]

My point is that the social needs are under appreciated by many people who are not affected by these issues. Even educators at suburban and private schools don't really know about the dire social ills in our communities. I am a Conservative torn by the belief in self responsibility and these social ills.

When I lived in Kansas City I spent my summers volunteering to be a counselor for under-privileged children and children that were wards of the state. This program was gov sponsored. I have no issue with having these programs for those that need them, however, I don't think these state sponsored programs should be open to anyone.

While I've never been affiliated with the programs in McPherson, there is an alternative school in town for behavioral students (takes kids from Hutch occasionally), and there is a huge program here for /children/adults with disabilities which draws families from all over the state.

[RoyalShock]

Deceptions of Kansas School Funding

The three deceptions in there sound like the things politicians would try to claim as being something they are not.