Trump

[revenge_of_shocka_khan]

For item 1 and 2:

https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...st-about-trum/

While I agree that he did not repeat that it was a 'democrat hoax' for two weeks, he did say this was the democrats 'new hoax' (below). Snopes mates partially true primarily because some people seem to (as I did initially) think he called it a hoax. He did not. He said it was the democrat's 'new hoax'. Therefore it is true.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...-rally-remark/ What's True


During a Feb. 28, 2020, campaign rally in South Carolina, President Donald Trump likened the Democrats' criticism of his administration's response to the new coronavirus outbreak to their efforts to impeach him, saying "this is their new hoax." During the speech he also seemed to downplay the severity of the outbreak, comparing it to the common flu. What's False


Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax.

Secondly
According to Snopes, Trump zeroed the budget for CDC pandemic team. I merely said he cut the team. I prefer using the term cut, because fire is a purjorative term, he has discretionary powers to CUT budgets and eliminate line items, which he did. It was a poor decision. Here's your reference on that one:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...pandemic-team/

The Trump administration fired the U.S. pandemic response team in 2018 to cut costs. Rating

True

About this rating

Thirdly

Trump touted Cloroquine as a remedy. It has not been approved for this use case by the FDA. People died because of it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...n-chloroquine/
People died because they believed it could keep them from getting the Coronavirus.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/healt...ath/index.html

For item #4, Trump said the following......."Under Control" "Everything is going to be fine"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/o...ronavirus.html

You see the glass as half-full, I see it as half-empty. But I DO have some facts and a good basis to form my opinions.

You also said earlier that I was a pessimist. I am sorry to say that I think I was closer to what was actually going to happen than you were. While I appreciate your optimism, and I think that is a great trait that will get you through a lot of rough times, the glass half-empty guy (me) was looking at information that led me to the conclusion I reached.

I'm hoping that you will be on the right side (and me on the wrong side) the next time something like this happens It is really sad for me to see the failures in leadership that we have witnessed over the last couple of months (and again, I voted for him, but will not do so again).

I have a co-worker that I really respect who is scared $hitless because he is over 60 and has COPD. He is a Trump voter, supported him much longer than I did, but this has really pushed him to a point where he is probably more strident against Trump than I am for two reasons. As a Naval Chief Petty Officer, he was really disapointed when Trump pardoned the guy who posed with the corpse in Afghanistan (The code of millitary justice is meant to instill good order and discipline in the ranks. As a Chief Petty Officer (only 3% of noncoms attain this rank in the Navy) he saw this FOX news-driven pardon as an affornt to the code of millitary justice). The second is he faces the risk of a really bad outcome (probably has bad odds of surviving) if he gets this and he knows it.

Please feel free to respond as you have time, I have always enjoyed our discussions, even though we don't align on many issues. I find you to be a very respectful and tolerant person. Those are two more great qualities that you have.

[wufan]

Just to be clear, “Trump likened the Democrats' criticism of his administration's response to the new coronavirus outbreak to their efforts to impeach him, saying ‘this is their new hoax.’"

The second item has two fact checking sites that disagree. Not sure what to say about that.

The third....you just provided the article saying it was approved. The person that died ate fish cleaner...which specifically states DO NOT INGEST. Trump didn’t say eat fish cleaner. He said there was a promising drug that should be approved. If I tell you that you need more iron in your diet, and you eat a rusty nail, that’s on you.

The fourth item, yes Trump publicly downplayed the virus in January and February. What should he have done at that time? The first known case in the United States of COVID-19 was confirmed in the state of Washington on January 20, 2020, in a 35-year-old man who had returned from Wuhan, China on January 15.^[4] The White House Coronavirus Task Force was established on January 29.^[2] On January 31, the Trump administration declared a public health emergency,^[5] and placed travel restrictions on entry for travellers from China.^[6]. On March 11, the WHO called Covid-19 a pandemic. On March 12 Trump shut down the borders everywhere before anyone else in the western world. What were you expecting him to do? How is this a horrific failure?

the other things you list show that you hate Trump. Okay. That has nothing to do with how he handled Coronavirus. This is China’s fault.

[WuDrWu]

While I agree that he did not repeat that it was a 'democrat hoax' for two weeks, he did say this was the democrats 'new hoax' (below). Snopes mates partially true primarily because some people seem to (as I did initially) think he called it a hoax. He did not. He said it was the democrat's 'new hoax'. Therefore it is true.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...-rally-remark/ What's True

Geezus farking crimeny, are you that stupid?

Answer: Yes, you are.

Snopes has their nose firmly up the sphincter of the left. So because you're TOO STUPID to listen correctly, and SOME PEOPLE think he said something that YOU ADMIT he didn't say, then it's at least partially true.

I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

[wsushox1]

Just to be clear, “Trump likened the Democrats' criticism of his administration's response to the new coronavirus outbreak to their efforts to impeach him, saying ‘this is their new hoax.’"

The second item has two fact checking sites that disagree. Not sure what to say about that.

The third....you just provided the article saying it was approved. The person that died ate fish cleaner...which specifically states DO NOT INGEST. Trump didn’t say eat fish cleaner. He said there was a promising drug that should be approved. If I tell you that you need more iron in your diet, and you eat a rusty nail, that’s on you.

The fourth item, yes Trump publicly downplayed the virus in January and February. What should he have done at that time? The first known case in the United States of COVID-19 was confirmed in the state of Washington on January 20, 2020, in a 35-year-old man who had returned from Wuhan, China on January 15.^[4] The White House Coronavirus Task Force was established on January 29.^[2] On January 31, the Trump administration declared a public health emergency,^[5] and placed travel restrictions on entry for travellers from China.^[6]. On March 11, the WHO called Covid-19 a pandemic. On March 12 Trump shut down the borders everywhere before anyone else in the western world. What were you expecting him to do? How is this a horrific failure?

the other things you list show that you hate Trump. Okay. That has nothing to do with how he handled Coronavirus. This is China’s fault.

I'll bite.

The argument of "There weren't very many cases, so what should Trump have done" seems a little silly. Leaders and emergency management professionals should be forward thinking and take steps to mitigate any future complications. The President had every opportunity to convey the seriousness of the issue but instead repeatedly made statements minimizing the potential outbreak as recently as late February. The argument in the first sentence, to me, is similar to a National Weather Service employee declining to issue a tornado warning for a metro area "because reports of damage haven't come in yet" when the science clearly shows a tornado producing storm entering the area. I'm sure we can interpret that differently, and that's ok.

The reality is that perhaps there wouldn't have been that much of a policy response difference from one administration to the next when it comes to this crisis - especially when there was so much red tape at the agency level. However, the President's lassez faire messaging in the early aughts of the pandemic no doubt emboldened certain news outlets to not take it seriously and minimize the threat posed. This attitude clearly would then be reflected in the attitudes of some members of his extreme base.

As far as your last sentence pertaining to China, they without a doubt share a lot of blame in this matter. But it is possible that, no matter where this disease would have started (yes I understand that these types of diseases are more likely to start in poorer countries due to proximity of wild animals and humans), it would have broken containment due to the ease of transmission compared to other novel coronavirus's.

China is not blameless, but I don't think they own 100% of this crisis.

[ShockingButTrue]

While I agree that he did not repeat that it was a 'democrat hoax' for two weeks, he did say this was the democrats 'new hoax' (below). Snopes mates partially true primarily because some people seem to (as I did initially) think he called it a hoax. He did not. He said it was the democrat's 'new hoax'. Therefore it is true.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...-rally-remark/ What's True


During a Feb. 28, 2020, campaign rally in South Carolina, President Donald Trump likened the Democrats' criticism of his administration's response to the new coronavirus outbreak to their efforts to impeach him, saying "this is their new hoax." During the speech he also seemed to downplay the severity of the outbreak, comparing it to the common flu. What's False


Despite creating some confusion with his remarks, Trump did not call the coronavirus itself a hoax.

Secondly
According to Snopes, Trump zeroed the budget for CDC pandemic team. I merely said he cut the team. I prefer using the term cut, because fire is a purjorative term, he has discretionary powers to CUT budgets and eliminate line items, which he did. It was a poor decision. Here's your reference on that one:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/tr...pandemic-team/

The Trump administration fired the U.S. pandemic response team in 2018 to cut costs. Rating

True

About this rating

Thirdly

Trump touted Cloroquine as a remedy. It has not been approved for this use case by the FDA. People died because of it.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...n-chloroquine/
People died because they believed it could keep them from getting the Coronavirus.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/healt...ath/index.html

For item #4, Trump said the following......."Under Control" "Everything is going to be fine"
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/15/o...ronavirus.html

You see the glass as half-full, I see it as half-empty. But I DO have some facts and a good basis to form my opinions.

You also said earlier that I was a pessimist. I am sorry to say that I think I was closer to what was actually going to happen than you were. While I appreciate your optimism, and I think that is a great trait that will get you through a lot of rough times, the glass half-empty guy (me) was looking at information that led me to the conclusion I reached.

I'm hoping that you will be on the right side (and me on the wrong side) the next time something like this happens It is really sad for me to see the failures in leadership that we have witnessed over the last couple of months (and again, I voted for him, but will not do so again).

I have a co-worker that I really respect who is scared $hitless because he is over 60 and has COPD. He is a Trump voter, supported him much longer than I did, but this has really pushed him to a point where he is probably more strident against Trump than I am for two reasons. As a Naval Chief Petty Officer, he was really disapointed when Trump pardoned the guy who posed with the corpse in Afghanistan (The code of millitary justice is meant to instill good order and discipline in the ranks. As a Chief Petty Officer (only 3% of noncoms attain this rank in the Navy) he saw this FOX news-driven pardon as an affornt to the code of millitary justice). The second is he faces the risk of a really bad outcome (probably has bad odds of surviving) if he gets this and he knows it.

Please feel free to respond as you have time, I have always enjoyed our discussions, even though we don't align on many issues. I find you to be a very respectful and tolerant person. Those are two more great qualities that you have.

I can't believe you took the time to post this nonsense. It reflects delusional thinking and disqualifies you from being taken seriously on anything you have to submit concerning measures taken to curb this outbreak by your President of the United States. As if the whole world isn't going through the same thing. Shame on you.

Who would even rely on information provided by people who are so blinded by hatred of their own President that they would seem to think it's alright to just, basically, blurt out any 'ol -ahem- prefabricated piece of a half-truth and call it the gospel? Oh, wait...

So your friends hate the President too huh? That will really change hearts and minds... Hahahahahahahaha

#AnchorsAweigh

[wufan]

I'll bite.

The argument of "There weren't very many cases, so what should Trump have done" seems a little silly. Leaders and emergency management professionals should be forward thinking and take steps to mitigate any future complications. The President had every opportunity to convey the seriousness of the issue but instead repeatedly made statements minimizing the potential outbreak as recently as late February. The argument in the first sentence, to me, is similar to a National Weather Service employee declining to issue a tornado warning for a metro area "because reports of damage haven't come in yet" when the science clearly shows a tornado producing storm entering the area. I'm sure we can interpret that differently, and that's ok.

The reality is that perhaps there wouldn't have been that much of a policy response difference from one administration to the next when it comes to this crisis - especially when there was so much red tape at the agency level. However, the President's lassez faire messaging in the early aughts of the pandemic no doubt emboldened certain news outlets to not take it seriously and minimize the threat posed. This attitude clearly would then be reflected in the attitudes of some members of his extreme base.

As far as your last sentence pertaining to China, they without a doubt share a lot of blame in this matter. But it is possible that, no matter where this disease would have started (yes I understand that these types of diseases are more likely to start in poorer countries due to proximity of wild animals and humans), it would have broken containment due to the ease of transmission compared to other novel coronavirus's.

China is not blameless, but I don't think they own 100% of this crisis.

As you stated, maybe a different administration would have handled this differently. That’s an unknowable argument, so all we can look at is how the rest of the world handled it.

China: lie about severity for months, lockdown all travel within a province on February 2. Round up all people that had contact with an infected person and house them in gymnasiums. Lock infected in their home.

South Korea: Infected South Koreans are required to go into isolation in government shelters. Their phones and credit card data are used to trace their prior movements and find their contacts. Those who are determined to have been near the infected individual receive phone alerts with information about their prior movements.^[177]

According to Chun Byung-Chul, an epidemiologist at Korea University, high-risk patients who have underlying illnesses are prioritized for hospitalization. Patients with moderate symptoms are sent to "repurposed corporate training facilities and spaces provided by public institutions," where they receive observation and medical support. Patients who recover and test negative twice are released. Close contacts and infected individuals with minimal symptoms who can measure their own temperatures and whose family members are free of any chronic disease are required to self-quarantine for two weeks. Local monitoring teams calls the quarantined twice a day to make sure that they stay where they are and to ask about symptoms.

Which of these two things should the administration have done to stop the spread of the disease?

Europe did less than us and later than us. No one has handled this well, so why would we lay particular blame on Trump for his actions?

The reason this is China’s fault: Wet markets. Lying about the disease.

[ShockingButTrue]

As you stated, maybe a different administration would have handled this differently. That’s an unknowable argument, so all we can look at is how the rest of the world handled it.

Beginning and end of the debate right there. Common sense.

What were Chuck Todd, Pelosi et. al. saying 3 1/2 weeks ago? I can't believe attention spans are that short, especially when looking at the opinions of -ahem- educated persons (not talking about you by the way).

[wsushox1]

Beginning and end of the debate right there. Common sense.

What were Chuck Todd, Pelosi et. al. saying 3 1/2 weeks ago? I can't believe attention spans are that short, especially when looking at the opinions of -ahem- educated persons (not talking about you by the way).

Joe Biden put out an op-ed in January about the threat and lack of preparedness of the current administration for the coronavirus.

[wufan]

Joe Biden put out an op-ed in January about the threat and lack of preparedness of the current administration for the coronavirus.

Here’s Bidens’s oped.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usa...amp/4581710002

Here’s my takeaway:

Trump put out bad tweets about Ebola in 2014, but Biden thwarted the illness. (No harm in current situation)

Trump proposed cuts that didn’t go through. (Didn’t pass, no harm)

Trump reorged the federal health team. (Is a reorg always bad)

Trump wasn’t working well with the WHO and NATO (Good!)

Trump is anti-science (evidence?)

Closed borders don’t work (I think that’s anti-science).

Biden will work with world governments to stem the tide (how? Is he going to give them our ventilators?)

Biden will empower the FDA to get treatments approved (yet ridiculed Trump for proposing this).


So, if you believe that we should reopen our borders, send our doctors overseas, trust the WHO, and not pressure the FDA to approve treatments, then I guess Biden is your guy!

While Biden’s staff was writing this oped and impeaching Trump, Trump was organizing the Coronavirus task force and shutting down travel out of China.

[wsushox1]

Trump is anti-science (evidence?)

I'm not going to go line-by-line.

But the President is, at the very least, selective in his belief of science considering he doesn't believe in anthropogenic warming of the earth. I'm sure a lot of people on this site don't believe in that either. But your insurers do and the market does, among others. There are billions in mortgage backed securities of coastal properties that will become untenable in the future. That risk is being counted in and the consequences will be real.

Are we in a "climate emergency"? Probably not.

[wufan]

I'm not going to go line-by-line.

But the President is, at the very least, selective in his belief of science considering he doesn't believe in anthropogenic warming of the earth. I'm sure a lot of people on this site don't believe in that either. But your insurers do and the market does, among others. There are billions in mortgage backed securities of coastal properties that will become untenable in the future. That risk is being counted in and the consequences will be real.

Are we in a "climate emergency"? Probably not.

I meant anti-science in relation to Coronavirus. In the way it impacts his Coronavirus decision making, cuz that’s what we are talking about here.

[Aargh]

My hatred of Hillary was only exceeded by my hatred of Trump. I despised Hillary from the moment I learned anything about her when Bill ran for Prez.

Let me provide some context here.

When Paul Manafort was hired to assist in some elections in Eastern Europe, he created stories out of thin air, put them on social media to get attention for them. Then moved them into media publications. He called those efforts "fake news". That is the origin of the term "fake news".

Here's the latest example of something that's clearly demonstrable as "fake news".

"It's just one case"
"It's totally under control"
"It's 15 today, soon it will be zero"
"We responded quickly and did a great job"

Those statements created a false sense of security and now Pence is saying our results are most likely to follow the Italian model, which is the absolute worst result of any industrialized country.

Then there's Trump's statement, "I take no responsibility at all". Harry Truman tried coming out of his grave on that thought, but didn't make it.

It was around a month between "It's 15 today and soon it will be zero" and "we're expecting between 100,000 and 240,000 deaths".

Before you respond with "no one could have predicted this", there was a simulation run by national security between January and August of 2019. This was run out of a branch of White House national security that predicted a pandemic would occur, that our response to it would be chaotic, and that as many as 50% of the population would be likely to be affected.

In July of 2019, Trump eliminated the budget for the epidemiologist assigned to China whose job was to monitor emerging pathogens in China. The responsibilities of that position were to assist the Chinese in dealing with the pathogen and inform the US of the existence, severity, and potential treatment of any emerging pathogen.

It's a bit disingenuous to blame the Chinese for failing to report the severity of the virus when the person under US control who was supposed to do that had been fired.

[wufan]

My hatred of Hillary was only exceeded by my hatred of Trump. I despised Hillary from the moment I learned anything about her when Bill ran for Prez.

Let me provide some context here.

When Paul Manafort was hired to assist in some elections in Eastern Europe, he created stories out of thin air, put them on social media to get attention for them. Then moved them into media publications. He called those efforts "fake news". That is the origin of the term "fake news".

Here's the latest example of something that's clearly demonstrable as "fake news".

"It's just one case"
"It's totally under control"
"It's 15 today, soon it will be zero"
"We responded quickly and did a great job"

Those statements created a false sense of security and now Pence is saying our results are most likely to follow the Italian model, which is the absolute worst result of any industrialized country.

Then there's Trump's statement, "I take no responsibility at all". Harry Truman tried coming out of his grave on that thought, but didn't make it.

It was around a month between "It's 15 today and soon it will be zero" and "we're expecting between 100,000 and 240,000 deaths".

Before you respond with "no one could have predicted this", there was a simulation run by national security between January and August of 2019. This was run out of a branch of White House national security that predicted a pandemic would occur, that our response to it would be chaotic, and that as many as 50% of the population would be likely to be affected.

In July of 2019, Trump eliminated the budget for the epidemiologist assigned to China whose job was to monitor emerging pathogens in China. The responsibilities of that position were to assist the Chinese in dealing with the pathogen and inform the US of the existence, severity, and potential treatment of any emerging pathogen.

It's a bit disingenuous to blame the Chinese for failing to report the severity of the virus when the person under US control who was supposed to do that had been fired.

Doesn’t the WHO do that? They said China was a model country.

[ShockingButTrue]

My hatred of Hillary was only exceeded by my hatred of Trump. I despised Hillary from the moment I learned anything about her when Bill ran for Prez.

Let me provide some context here.

When Paul Manafort was hired to assist in some elections in Eastern Europe, he created stories out of thin air, put them on social media to get attention for them. Then moved them into media publications. He called those efforts "fake news". That is the origin of the term "fake news".

Here's the latest example of something that's clearly demonstrable as "fake news".

"It's just one case"
"It's totally under control"
"It's 15 today, soon it will be zero"
"We responded quickly and did a great job"

Those statements created a false sense of security and now Pence is saying our results are most likely to follow the Italian model, which is the absolute worst result of any industrialized country.

Then there's Trump's statement, "I take no responsibility at all". Harry Truman tried coming out of his grave on that thought, but didn't make it.

It was around a month between "It's 15 today and soon it will be zero" and "we're expecting between 100,000 and 240,000 deaths".

Before you respond with "no one could have predicted this", there was a simulation run by national security between January and August of 2019. This was run out of a branch of White House national security that predicted a pandemic would occur, that our response to it would be chaotic, and that as many as 50% of the population would be likely to be affected.

In July of 2019, Trump eliminated the budget for the epidemiologist assigned to China whose job was to monitor emerging pathogens in China. The responsibilities of that position were to assist the Chinese in dealing with the pathogen and inform the US of the existence, severity, and potential treatment of any emerging pathogen.

It's a bit disingenuous to blame the Chinese for failing to report the severity of the virus when the person under US control who was supposed to do that had been fired.

You're smarter than that. He was called a bigot for implementing a ban in January. Then if I recall correctly it was addressed before the whole Nation not long after (remember?):


moqtC0Rn5xt2ZcTRPHHF4JQRnw5-wtZSdo5-ysS4SmU.jpg

Surely your not making a supporting case for the early party-line whispers of impeachment? It sounds like you are.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

You're smarter than that. He was called a bigot for implementing a ban in January. Then if I recall correctly it was addressed before the whole Nation not long after (remember?):


moqtC0Rn5xt2ZcTRPHHF4JQRnw5-wtZSdo5-ysS4SmU.jpg

Surely your not making a supporting case for the early party-line whispers of impeachment? It sounds like you are.

"I just want — I just want to add, I think the one thing nobody really knew about this virus was how contagious it was. It’s so incredibly contagious. And nobody knew that. This is like — I don’t know that anybody has ever seen anything like this. Normally you’d have to get close and touch and this — a lot of things have to happen. This is just like — it’s — it’s truly invisible and so contagious. And I don’t think any doctor knew it at the time. I don’t think anybody could have known it. People have not seen anything like this"