Trump

[Kung Wu]

I'm only trolling which, as it too often seems today, is what a majority of political discourse has become.

Lol. I took the bait. It's so obvious when you look back at it.

[Aargh]

Let me see if I've read this thread right:

1) Having a black President has made more white people dislike more black people, and has made more black people dislike more white people.
2) Black people protesting cops shooting black people has made more white people dislike more black people and vice cersa.
3) Unless black people stop shooting other black people, they shouldn't complain about white cops shooting black people because they kill more of each other than are killed by police.
4) The country would be less racially divided if we had never elected a black President.

I believe I've read all those opinions and seen most of them defended.

[wufan]

Let me see if I've read this thread right:

1) Having a black President has made more white people dislike more black people, and has made more black people dislike more white people.
2) Black people protesting cops shooting black people has made more white people dislike more black people and vice cersa.
3) Unless black people stop shooting other black people, they shouldn't complain about white cops shooting black people because they kill more of each other than are killed by police.
4) The country would be less racially divided if we had never elected a black President.

I believe I've read all those opinions and seen most of them defended.

Not really. You have to replace black pres with Obama in 1 and 4. 2 & 3 were examples of recent racial divide.

[Play Angry]

Did we explain what Obama affirmatively did or specifically said to cause these problems? That was the original assertion, not that they simply occurred under his watch.

The strength of the argument over the last few pages is about as strong as the "Two words: Katrina; Superdome" argument some people on the other side of the aisle used to damn Bush as a racist and divider.

Beef it up with specifics and citations, por favor.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

I'll take a stab at a specific thing Obama did to hurt race relations, as @Play Angry requested.

Harvard professor is charged with disorderly conduct.
Obama jumps the gun and says the white cops "acted stupidly".
Evidence eventually shows that the cops were just doing their job and the professor was extremely rude and hurled unwarranted racist accusations at the cops.

Many blacks saw the reality of the situation and the whole picture, but not all did, and the net effect was the black community taking one step further toward disliking cops, and in some cases, feeling justified to treat them poorly.

Many cops felt that even the President of the United States was "against them", at least in this one case, and that he unfairly called them out and implied they are racists. This is bad for morale of existing cops, and hurts recruitment of potential good cops who just don't want to deal with this garbage (duties of a cop are hard enough without false racism claims on top of it all) and end up choosing another profession.

Some whites who refuse to acknowledge that there is any real racism remaining anywhere gain ammo for their argument. "See, another fake racism charge!" It's "the boy who cried wolf" effect. See enough false charges, and you will never believe the real ones. The number of white Americans who see blacks as whining about fake racism was increased by Obama's remarks.

Disagree if you want on my specific analysis. I'm sure I could have worded it better. However, I feel there is a simple, indisputable truth that we can all agree on. Obama's remark that the cops "acted stupidly" was in no way helpful to race relations in America, and rather than help, it most definitely did some harm.

*Note, I'm not saying I agree with every response from blacks, whites, cops, etc. listed above. My point is that race relations are inherently not about logical and reasonable people most times. Often, it is people who are operating from life experiences that have given them a warped view of others. Is a white person wrong to judge the black community by this Harvard professor's actions? Probably so, but that misses the point. In order to improve race relations, we must act in ways that help illogical people move toward logic, kindness, and respect. Obama's actions drove illogical and sometimes mean-spirited people further into their racism, not further away from it.

[WstateU]

I'll take a stab at a specific thing Obama did to hurt race relations, as @Play Angry requested.

Harvard professor is charged with disorderly conduct.
Obama jumps the gun and says the white cops "acted stupidly".
Evidence eventually shows that the cops were just doing their job and the professor was extremely rude and hurled unwarranted racist accusations at the cops.

Many blacks saw the reality of the situation and the whole picture, but not all did, and the net effect was the black community taking one step further toward disliking cops, and in some cases, feeling justified to treat them poorly.

Many cops felt that even the President of the United States was "against them", at least in this one case, and that he unfairly called them out and implied they are racists. This is bad for morale of existing cops, and hurts recruitment of potential good cops who just don't want to deal with this garbage (duties of a cop are hard enough without false racism claims on top of it all) and end up choosing another profession.

Some whites who refuse to acknowledge that there is any real racism remaining anywhere gain ammo for their argument. "See, another fake racism charge!" It's "the boy who cried wold" effect. See enough false charges, and you will never believe the real ones. The number of white Americans who see blacks as whining about fake racism was increased by Obama's remarks.

Disagree if you want on my specific analysis. I'm sure I could have worded it better. However, I feel there is a simple, indisputable truth that we can all agree on. Obama's remark that the cops "acted stupidly" was in no way helpful to race relations in America, and rather than help, it most definitely did some harm.

*Note, I'm not saying I agree with every response from blacks, whites, cops, etc. listed above. My point is that race relations are inherently not about logical and reasonable people most times. Often, it is people who are operating from life experiences that have given them a warped view of others. Is a white person wrong to judge the black community by this Harvard professor's actions? Probably so, but that misses the point. In order to improve race relations, we must act in ways that help illogical people move toward logic, kindness, and respect. Obama's actions drove illogical and sometimes mean-spirited people further into their racism, not further away from it.

[Kung Wu]

There was the Black Panther voter intimidation dudes that his admin failed to prosecute too:

[wufan]

Not a "black/white" thing, but the kid in TX that took the "suitcase clock" to school. The way OBama handled that situation was that if the kid was white there would have been no issue. Hopefully that is not the case in reality.

[Play Angry]

There was the Black Panther voter intimidation dudes that his admin failed to prosecute too

Not a "black/white" thing, but the kid in TX that took the "suitcase clock" to school. The way OBama handled that situation was that if the kid was white there would have been no issue. Hopefully that is not the case in reality.

Jamar did a great job of providing specifics and quotes. I agree with most on here that race relations are strained and the President has at times added to that discord.

@Kung Wu, can you provide some background on this incident, with links and quotes describing Obama's failings in connection with it?

@wufan, what quotes led you to arrive at that conclusion?

A lot of folks on here assume that everyone views events through the same lens. However, someone who gets all their news from Fox News, Breitbart or Red State is going to have a pretty different experience from someone who reads about those same events on the Huffington Post or watches MSNBC. Same thing with the folks in between who read the Economist, the Wall Street Journal, etc. Just referring to an event with the assumption that its very mention brings about the desired conclusion isn't very different from the Kanye West approach for Hurricane Katrina. Bring the context and facts with links to support, otherwise it isn't persuasive - it just reinforces each viewpoint's entrenched position.

Below is a quote from Donald Trump's campaign kick-off speech:

When Mexico sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.

I am interested in hearing from Trump supporters - how does the above quote remedy the failings of the Obama administration with respect to racial and ethnic reconciliation? Or, is it justified by Obama's failings? Or, is incitement justified by a sincere belief that it would result in economic benefit? Alternatively, is the quote despicable but can be overlooked because the ends justify the means?

[wufan]

Jamar did a great job of providing specifics and quotes. I agree with most on here that race relations are strained and the President has at times added to that discord.

@Kung Wu, can you provide some background on this incident, with links and quotes describing Obama's failings in connection with it?

@wufan, what quotes led you to arrive at that conclusion?

A lot of folks on here assume that everyone views events through the same lens. However, someone who gets all their news from Fox News, Breitbart or Red State is going to have a pretty different experience from someone who reads about those same events on the Huffington Post or watches MSNBC. Same thing with the folks in between who read the Economist, the Wall Street Journal, etc. Just referring to an event with the assumption that its very mention brings about the desired conclusion isn't very different from the Kanye West approach for Hurricane Katrina. Bring the context and facts with links to support, otherwise it isn't persuasive - it just reinforces each viewpoint's entrenched position.

Below is a quote from Donald Trump's campaign kick-off speech:



I am interested in hearing from Trump supporters - how does the above quote remedy the failings of the Obama administration with respect to racial and ethnic reconciliation? Or, is it justified by Obama's failings? Or, is incitement justified by a sincere belief that it would result in economic benefit? Alternatively, is the quote despicable but can be overlooked because the ends justify the means?

Obama's tweet:

Cool clock, Ahmed. Want to bring it to the White House? We should inspire more kids like you to like science. It's what makes America great.

I'm not sure if this is a conservative site (probably is), but here's some other quotes attributed to the Obama admin:

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09/obama-extends-white-house-invite-to-muslim-kid-who-brought-briefcase-clock-to-school-that-looked-like-bomb/

I'm not a Trump supporter, so I won't respond to the rest.

[shock]

I think I'm beginning to like donald trump. Now he is just showing off. This **** is too funny.

[ShockTalk]

Each of the political party's establishment has lead to this.

The Middle Class is Vanishing in American Cities.

"Pew's research shone light on the issue that has contributed to the rise in anxiety throughout the American public, which has helped explain the rise of the insurgent candidacies of presumptive Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and Democratic Sen. Bernie Sanders."

[Kung Wu]

2016 looks much like the others, other than 1st place being sub 40%, while the immediate challengers have been a bit stronger than normal.

43% and counting.

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

43% and counting.

I see Trump is up to 41% now. Where are you seeing 43%?

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?f=0&year=2016&elect=2

Also, there's this:

Winning % in uncontested Oregon primary:
McCain 85%
Bush 84%
Romney 72%
Trump 67%

Trump will indeed rise from 39.7% of the total, but there is no way he catches McCain, and he will be even further behind Romney.

Romney - 52% of total
McCain - 47% of total

Trump ain't catching them, and they lost. He will lose too.

[Kung Wu]

I see Trump is up to 41% now. Where are you seeing 43%?

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?f=0&year=2016&elect=2

Also, there's this:

Winning % in uncontested Oregon primary:
McCain 85%
Bush 84%
Romney 72%
Trump 67%



Romney - 52% of total
McCain - 47% of total

Trump ain't catching them, and they lost. He will lose too.

Ah I calc'd off RealClearPolitics. But they only show the top 4. I forgot 14 other losers siphoned some votes early on.


But get this, the Oregon number you stated is with 75% reported precincts and he has ALREADY beaten Romney's vote total. He is easily getting more voters to the booth than Romney and McCain ever sniffed.