Trump

[SHOCKvalue]

Not happening. The federal government quit sharing assets seized during drug busts. All seized assets now stay with the feds. Furthermore, the small amount of pot confiscated from each person coming out of Colorado usually doesn't meet the threshold of having any assets seized.

If you are saying that civil asset forfeiture has gone away, then I'm really not sure how to respond. There have been a couple of decisions made federally and by a tiny fraction of states to curtail the behavior, but those are a drop in the bucket to the monsoon-scale problem as a whole. It is still an abusive scheme purring along nicely throughout most of the US.

They get a speeding ticket and are caught with a little devils lettuce. This bogs down the courts, costs law enforcement time and money and has become burdomsome. You can't protect and serve if you are spending all of your time and money in court.

Sounds FANTASTIC to me!

The more time people bog down the system fighting generally high return (for the law enforcement agencies) nonsense, the more likely it is the powers that be will shift focus towards using resources on fighting real problems.

[SHOCKvalue]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inves...ddc_story.html

Again, this didn't do anything to shut off the spigot at the municipal or state level.

[MoValley John]

Again, this didn't do anything to shut off the spigot at the municipal or state level.

I don't know what the state forfeiture laws are in Kansas, but in Nebraska, it has curtailed the inappropriate confiscation of assets. If Kansas law allows for assets to be seized without a conviction, and without proof that the assets were gained in the commission of a crime, than Kansas law needs to be changed. In the past, rogue law enforcement would make traffic stops for the sole purpose of fleecing people, the Federal government made it easy. If your law still allows it at the state level, well, it needs to be changed.

[shocka khan]

"Is it true that Government self interest is somehow nobler than Economic self interest?"

Don't have time to watch the youtube, but I do think you have a point regarding the 'nobility' of government self-interest. Particularly when you put lobbyists into the mix.

Meanwhile, here's yet another example of how pressure on increasing profits results in behavior that is not necessarily in the long-run interests of a corporation:http://www.chicagotribune.com/busine...515-story.html

Also note that Rosenfeld (don't know his/her first name) has earned $40 million over the last two years. If Mondelez had reduced Rosenfeld's salary to $5 million per year, they would have saved $15 million per year the last two years.

So why is a profitable company eliminating 600 jobs and sending production to Mexico? More profits.

What happens when we've outsourced absolutely everything we can and Americans can't afford Oreos anymore? There is an element of cannibalism as regards to crony capitalism. Like a parasite, it feeds on itself until the host (middle class) dies.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

I don't know what the state forfeiture laws are in Kansas, but in Nebraska, it has curtailed the inappropriate confiscation of assets. If Kansas law allows for assets to be seized without a conviction, and without proof that the assets were gained in the commission of a crime, than Kansas law needs to be changed. In the past, rogue law enforcement would make traffic stops for the sole purpose of fleecing people, the Federal government made it easy. If your law still allows it at the state level, well, it needs to be changed.

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2016/feb/15/kansas-criminal-forfeiture-law-among-nations-tough/

http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2012/b2011_12/statute/060_000_0000_chapter/060_041_0000_article/060_041_0005_section/060_041_0005_k/

[wu_shizzle]

Don't have time to watch the youtube, but I do think you have a point regarding the 'nobility' of government self-interest.

In the time it took you to post, you could've watched the video.

But I get it, sometimes it's more fun to post.

[shocka khan]

Over the last 15 years, we have outsourced over 2 million jobs to China alone:

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/data-mine/2014/12/11/outsourcing-to-china-cost-us-32-million-jobs-since-2001

Our federal government bailed out AIG after they were laid low due to credit default swaps and security lending. What did we, as americans get in return for bailing them out? More outsourcing and, when no one was looking, a return to the behaviors that caused them to fail. Not only that, until recently, the CEO had part of his bonus calculations based on how the credit default swaps were performing (it's buried down in the article):

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2016/03/30/403481.htm

[wu_shizzle]

What happens when we've outsourced absolutely everything we can and Americans can't afford Oreos anymore? There is an element of cannibalism as regards to crony capitalism. Like a parasite, it feeds on itself until the host (middle class) dies.

Can you give an example in the Macro or Micro of when this has ever happened?

Outsourcing is a direct example of increased wealth and the division of labor is key to that.

https://fee.org/articles/outsourcing-makes-us-richer/

[SHOCKvalue]

I don't know what the state forfeiture laws are in Kansas, but in Nebraska, it has curtailed the inappropriate confiscation of assets. If Kansas law allows for assets to be seized without a conviction, and without proof that the assets were gained in the commission of a crime, than Kansas law needs to be changed. In the past, rogue law enforcement would make traffic stops for the sole purpose of fleecing people, the Federal government made it easy. If your law still allows it at the state level, well, it needs to be changed.

Nebraska is one of the afore-mentioned "tiny fraction" of states that have (very) recently written into law legislation to stop the behavior, but again, like I said the number of states who have done so is minuscule. I'm not going to look the number up at this very moment, but I believe it is a "count on one hand" scale.

It is good for Nebraska from a PR perspective, because that is one of the states most often mentioned and examples cited in various media articles over the past few years outlining civil asset forfeiture abuses. Sounds like the LE departments in NE had a well-oiled machine legally stealing from people.

The Federal move by Holder simply stopped Federal interaction in the civil forfeiture system. States are still free to do what they want, in this context.

Maybe @shocker3: could give us the low down on anything brewing within the Kansas Legislature to ward off the behavior in Kansas.

[SHOCKvalue]

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2016/fe...nations-tough/

http://www.kslegislature.org/li_2012...60_041_0005_k/

The fact that legislation like this faces an uphill battle for passage is the clearest example of how the people have lost control of the government. And it is 100% a bi-partisan issue. No left or right biases here. The people want this behavior curtailed; elected lawmakers are hesitant to act due to pressures from inside of the government, along with special interests. I mean WTF is wrong with this picture? Is this OUR government, or is it the Government's government?

The guy given as an example of having $40K in cash on his person on his way to buy a boat was me about a year ago, but it was considerably less than $40K, and it was a motorcycle. I was still terrified of what might happen if I got pulled over on the way to buy the bike. Why should we have to live like this?

[shocka khan]

Can you give an example in the Macro or Micro of when this has ever happened?

Outsourcing is a direct example of increased wealth and the division of labor is key to that.

https://fee.org/articles/outsourcing-makes-us-richer/

Sure, here's an example:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2014/10/29/the-surprising-truth-about-where-new-jobs-come-from/#3e356f3647d9

I have to agree that there are jobs that no one is able/willing to do. I have a home with a pier and beam foundation. They guy (who is very good) that I've used for years can't find 'Americans' to fill those jobs. They are now filled by latin people.

But there are many other jobs that are being lost, such as the Carrier plant in Indianapolis, the Nabisco plant in Chicago and others where jobs that could have been held by recent graduates or kids working their way through college (or even blue collar workers) have left the country.

Plus I have a problem with any author who uses phrases such as: "or a union threatening violence with impunity". The author is throwing a red herring in front of his audience, who are obviously union-hating people. My opinion is that unions have done good things and bad things, but the one thing they do that is a useful function is protecting people's jobs. One of the bad things they do is to create an environment where the union member feels they are 'entitled' to certain benefits.

Lastly, I don't think the author of your cite understands the job-destroying potential of computers and robots. I would say that the number of jobs that can be created is not calculable (rather than infinite). I say that because productivity gains steadily wipe jobs out.

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

The fact that legislation like this faces an uphill battle for passage is the clearest example of how the people have lost control of the government. And it is 100% a bi-partisan issue. No left or right biases here. The people want this behavior curtailed; elected lawmakers are hesitant to act due to pressures from inside of the government, along with special interests. I mean WTF is wrong with this picture? Is this OUR government, or is it the Government's government?

The guy given as an example of having $40K in cash on his person on his way to buy a boat was me about a year ago, but it was considerably less than $40K, and it was a motorcycle. I was still terrified of what might happen if I got pulled over on the way to buy the bike. Why should we have to live like this?

We agree on this but these types of situations happen far to often. WPD are pretty notorious for taking items due to many reasons that I wont get into because nobody cares about these things until it happens to them.

[SHOCKvalue]

We agree on this but these types of situations happen far to often. WPD are pretty notorious for taking items due to many reasons that I wont get into because nobody cares about these things until it happens to them.

It hasn't ever happened to me, but it pisses me off mightily nonetheless.

There is a pretty big wave of public contempt forming towards civil asset forfeiture though. It has taken decades, but the snowball effect is reaching a lot of people at this point. I wouldn't downplay that.

[Aargh]

There's also some leniency shown in sentencing when huge forfeitures are made. Some guy got caught with a small plane full of pot in SE KS. He forfeited the plane, a Bentley, a house in southern CA, something like $400K in cash that was found in his house, and a Buick. He got a very light sentence - something like 18 months. Part of the plea bargain was that he wouldn't contest the forfeiture.

Apparently if you can pay the cops enough through forfeiture, the judge will give you nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

[Kung Wu]

I have to agree that there are jobs that no one is able/willing to do. I have a home with a pier and beam foundation. They guy (who is very good) that I've used for years can't find 'Americans' to fill those jobs. They are now filled by latin people.

This line of thought is total bullshit.