Trump

[wufan]

Let's assume Trump's behavior and Russia's actions are identical to every other president.

If the whole point of electing the guy who said offensive things, had no experience, and constantly flip flopped was to drain the swamp, shouldn't we still hold him accountable?

We should hold everyone accountable. No freebies. We also shouldn't dwell on this, but we are. To me, this really isn't a surprise, it's a sad reality, but not unexpected. As pointed out in an article I posted, over the past 70 years, the best a conservative can hope for is to have less government expansion via nothing getting done. Perhaps Trump is the ultimate conservative.

[jdshock]

We should hold everyone accountable ... We also shouldn't dwell on this, but we are.

But how can we hold this administration accountable if they're still saying Russia had no involvement in the election? If they continue to do corrupt thing after corrupt thing and everyone just keeps saying "let's not dwell on it," what is your specific proposal for holding them accountable if the underlying behavior isn't overtly illegal?

[shockfan89_]

But how can we hold this administration accountable if they're still saying Russia had no involvement in the election? If they continue to do corrupt thing after corrupt thing and everyone just keeps saying "let's not dwell on it," what is your specific proposal for holding them accountable if the underlying behavior isn't overtly illegal?

The Obama administration wasn't held accountable for any of their lies or corrupt behavior. Why do we need to hold the Trump administration accountable for anything related to Russia? Let's do what we can as a country to prevent foreign involvement in future elections, and then focus on his agenda and hold him accountable for Making America Great Again.

[wufan]

But how can we hold this administration accountable if they're still saying Russia had no involvement in the election? If they continue to do corrupt thing after corrupt thing and everyone just keeps saying "let's not dwell on it," what is your specific proposal for holding them accountable if the underlying behavior isn't overtly illegal?

Trump is no longer saying that Russia didn't try to sway the election. He is still saying that he did not collude with Russia. My proposal would be that the media not demonize this anymore than it already has. If nothing illegal was done, then there isn't anything to do other than vote him out in 3.5 years. That's how you hold an elected politician accountable; hold them accountable to the law and to the voters.

Edit: BTW, Clinton also had foreign bots campaigning for her. What do we do about that? Nothing!

[wufan]

The Obama administration wasn't held accountable for any of their lies or corrupt behavior. Why do we need to hold the Trump administration accountable for anything related to Russia? Let's focus on his agenda and hold him accountable for Making America Great Again.

See my post above. The POTUS is accountable to the law and to the voters. Anything beyond that is political hypocracy.

[MoValley John]

Edit: BTW, Clinton also had foreign bots campaigning for her. What do we do about that? Nothing!

Hillary wasn't elected, so what she did doesnt matter. That said, had Hillary been elected, everyone screaming about Russia would have nothing to say about Hillary and the Ukraine. No media would be digging, it would be over. There in lies why I'm sick of this, this is nothing new, it's not unique to Trump. Democrats have done the same, every election.

[pinstripers]

Hillary wasn't elected, so what she did doesnt matter. That said, had Hillary been elected, everyone screaming about Russia would have nothing to say about Hillary and the Ukraine. No media would be digging, it would be over. There in lies why I'm sick of this, this is nothing new, it's not unique to Trump. Democrats have done the same, every election.

"Doesn't matter" is too strong. If this is a prosecutable offense, and I don't think anybody is sure, then everyone who committed that offense needs to go to jail, regardless of whether their party won or lost. But I get your point.

[jdshock]

If nothing illegal was done, then there isn't anything to do other than vote him out in 3.5 years. That's how you hold an elected politician accountable; hold them accountable to the law and to the voters.

This is my problem right now, though. People are far too focused on whether or not it is legal. While you're not arguing that it is or is not legal, you still believe that is the lynchpin question. There are legal things that politicians should still be held accountable for (lying, for example) and there are illegal things that we should probably just let go. If people decide Trump has acted poorly, we have more options than to just wait out his term, but you must first decide if you think what he did was wrong.

We/Congress can:

(1) make sure folks like Kushner get there security clearance revoked;
(2) force him to be accountable by refusing to pass his policies unless he starts acting better; or
(3) theoretically, Congress can impeach someone even if they didn't commit a high crime.

Do you always base your morality on whether something is or is not legal? Just saying "let's move on" means that he will never be held accountable.

[pinstripers]

But that's the point. More and more it sounds like this crap is SOP for Washington politicians.

[jdshock]

But that's the point. More and more it sounds like this crap is SOP for Washington politicians.

But Trump was elected on a platform of removing this crap from politics, so let's at least hold him accountable since he's the one in office.

[shockmonster]

But Trump was elected on a platform of removing this crap from politics, so let's at least hold him accountable since he's the one in office.

It's good to see that ethics bother you when a Democrat isn't in office. You never were bothered from 2008-2016. I wish that ALL people were upset by a lack of ethics, and lying at all times.

Does that mean you are two faced or half faced?

[jdshock]

It's good to see that ethics bother you when a Democrat isn't in office. You never were bothered from 2008-2016. I wish that ALL people were upset by a lack of ethics, and lying at all times.

Does that mean you are two faced or half faced?

Where to begin?

1. Obama's not in office. His wrong doings neither implicate nor absolve Trump;
2. The post you quoted specifically pointed out that Trump ran on the platform of draining the swamp. If anyone should be held accountable, it should be him;
3. I specifically stated earlier in this thread that I was unhappy with the Clinton campaign's somewhat similar involvement with Ukraine.
4. If we want to hold politicians accountable, we can only start with politicians presently in office.

That's just how you're wrong without even getting into whether or not Obama did anything similar. But, yeah, Trump supporters elected Trump to get corruption out of office and I'm the two faced individual.

[wufan]

This is my problem right now, though. People are far too focused on whether or not it is legal. While you're not arguing that it is or is not legal, you still believe that is the lynchpin question. There are legal things that politicians should still be held accountable for (lying, for example) and there are illegal things that we should probably just let go. If people decide Trump has acted poorly, we have more options than to just wait out his term, but you must first decide if you think what he did was wrong.

We/Congress can:

(1) make sure folks like Kushner get there security clearance revoked;
(2) force him to be accountable by refusing to pass his policies unless he starts acting better; or
(3) theoretically, Congress can impeach someone even if they didn't commit a high crime.

Do you always base your morality on whether something is or is not legal? Just saying "let's move on" means that he will never be held accountable.

I believe in holding politicians accountable through the vote of the people. Why doesn't democracy work?

[pinstripers]

Usually, Republicans want all lawbreakers arrested. Usually, Democrats want all Republican lawbreakers arrested.

[shockmonster]

Where to begin?

1. Obama's not in office. His wrong doings neither implicate nor absolve Trump;
2. The post you quoted specifically pointed out that Trump ran on the platform of draining the swamp. If anyone should be held accountable, it should be him;
3. I specifically stated earlier in this thread that I was unhappy with the Clinton campaign's somewhat similar involvement with Ukraine.
4. If we want to hold politicians accountable, we can only start with politicians presently in office.

That's just how you're wrong without even getting into whether or not Obama did anything similar. But, yeah, Trump supporters elected Trump to get corruption out of office and I'm the two faced individual.

I'm not defending Trump. I abhor a lot of things he does. It's amazing how ethical you have become after O'bama left office. I never heard you holding Obama accountable for his indiscretions and lying.

The media forgot to cover these scandals (Fox News did more than the other main stream media combined). There was a lot not brought to light during BHO's Presidency that he ignored (you ignored too). While I do not support Trump for his stupidity, I do hope that our congress and President can pass some economic legislation, and immigration reform. However, I don't see it happening here either. That's too bad for America.

Below, is some reading on the scandals that you ignored during the past 8 years.

http://dailysignal.com/2016/10/24/9-controversies-obama-didnt-mention-when-he-denied-any-major-scandals/