Trump

[pinstripers]

I wonder if folks oughta have an ID to buy beer?

[pinstripers]

Please take note of my Eric RIP post.

[ShockCrazy]

To be fair, this is now the politics guns and beer forum. Politics might be on his mind. Then again, he could be here for the guns.
Or beer.

Fair point. All this talk has me in the mood for beer. Something Belgian I think.

[WuDrWu]

Then honestly, why are you here? Isn't the point of a political forum to have discourse and share information and knowledge to help understand policy that shapes our country? If you aren't going to bother learning, you aren't going to bother supporting your arguments, and you don't care to have evolving opinions, what is the point?

Why does he have to "evolve"? Perhaps it's a difference of opinions, I don't know. What I do know, and what I suspect @pinstripers: is saying, along with many others, is that I value my vote more than someone that's not a citizen. And I want my government to protect my vote. And frankly, I don't care if someone else doesn't want to make the effort to go vote or get an ID. It's MORE important that my vote counts and it valued. I don't care if illegal Cubans vote for my choice. I don't want them voting. And you and @jdshock: and anyone else can use all the language you want to use about suppressing the vote or whatever. I imagine anyone that can't afford an ID that should have one would miraculously find a way to get an Obamaphone without a lot of effort. I get your point, I just disagree with you completely.

I also think if everyone that thinks like I do agreed to be taxed at whatever level you and others think would adequately pay for government ID cards for the poor or whomever (everyone, I don't care) and that tax was only levied on the 1%ers so that we could eliminate non-citizens from voting....I imagine that you would find some other point to argue against it.


And that's kind of my point too.

[shocka khan]

I think everyone who is a citizen should vote. (they don't) You think requiring an ID would cause less of them to vote? (it might, maybe, but that's just a guess) You think some illegals voted for trump. (I doubt it).

While I'm absolutely sure no illegals voted for Trump, I know of at least one first-generation Hatian immigrant who voted for him.

[shocka khan]

I think you have a point regarding turning a California ID into another state's ID. Funny thing is that I asked about this from the beginning.



Khan made up a strawman about people moving just so they could vote in other states (nobody claimed they did)
Khan claimed that not enough people move for this topic to be relevant (despite reality that millions of Californians move out of state each year)
ShockCrazy, you backed Khan up that the numbers were too small to matter.

I'm not sure why you guys didn't jump straight to discussing the difficulty of converting to other state IDs. That probably should have been the focus of discussion all along.

I did not. So are you intellectually lazy or are you the REAL troll?

There's a third option, perhaps you're slow and don't comprehend what you've read on this thread.

Doesn't make any difference what the choice is, you're just showing your ass and trying to troll me. Try to be a little smarter about it next time.

[shocka khan]

This just in, CBS news (I'm watching right now) just reported cyber experts are suspecting Russians behind the cyber attacks against Wolf Creek.

I know this could change (and often does as evidence is developed), but it would be ironic if some of the Russian interference deniers here lived close to Neosho Rapids (that's about as close as I can place Wolf Creek) and ended up glowing in the dark if they actually infiltrated the reactor.

I'm betting the odds on this, though, are long. I'm betting the servers controlling the reactors run on a separate, completely segregated subnet.

[Kung Wu]

Fair point. All this talk has me in the mood for beer. Something Belgian I think.

OMG! Based on @WstateU:'s post on another thread, I have just consumed yet another couple of WBC's finest Belgian Dubbels! Who gives a rat's ass about illegal immigration, just shoot me another dubbel!

[ShockCrazy]

Why does he have to "evolve"? Perhaps it's a difference of opinions, I don't know. What I do know, and what I suspect @pinstripers is saying, along with many others, is that I value my vote more than someone that's not a citizen. And I want my government to protect my vote. And frankly, I don't care if someone else doesn't want to make the effort to go vote or get an ID. It's MORE important that my vote counts and it valued. I don't care if illegal Cubans vote for my choice. I don't want them voting. And you and @jdshock and anyone else can use all the language you want to use about suppressing the vote or whatever. I imagine anyone that can't afford an ID that should have one would miraculously find a way to get an Obamaphone without a lot of effort. I get your point, I just disagree with you completely.

I also think if everyone that thinks like I do agreed to be taxed at whatever level you and others think would adequately pay for government ID cards for the poor or whomever (everyone, I don't care) and that tax was only levied on the 1%ers so that we could eliminate non-citizens from voting....I imagine that you would find some other point to argue against it.


And that's kind of my point too.

Sure we can have a difference of opinions, and I am fine with that. But what's the point of coming on here if you aren't either 1) going to support your opinion with some facts or 2) listen to the other side? That was my point regarding pinstripers.

Regarding your vote being important certainly, but see my post above on where the line is. I only want citizens voting, but I also understand that making it more difficult for illegals makes it more difficult for legal citizens. Can you at least empathize with someone being poor, not having a driver's license and not having a copy of their birth certificate? Doesn't seem like a stretch, so basically you think they should just figure out how to find the financial means to vote? It doesn't matter what someone spends their money on, how they live, they have an inalienable right to vote without having to pay end of story(assuming not guilty of a federal offense).

I find it amusing you think I'm on the left. I am a registered Libertarian, and usually in the past have sided with Republicans, but the Republicans have gone down a path I do not support. I would prefer very low federal taxes, but that would imply I trust the state of Kansas to pick up the slack and understand our local needs better.

I have no ulterior agenda, I want citizens and ONLY citizens to be free and able to vote by whatever means necessary, and I see the ways both sides have manipulated laws AND districts to suppress those that disagree claiming it's just to prevent illegal voting, but the reality is it is blatant suppression.

[wufan]

I wonder if folks oughta have an ID to buy beer?

Until someone makes it free to get a license, I'm just going to assume that it's another law to restrict the growth of industry. Anyone that doesn't agree, needs to read up on the persecution of Germans in this country, especially during WWII. The truth is that there aren't enough under-aged beer drinkers in this country for us to waste our time on it, and even if there was, the law makers would just be biased hacks!

I think I covered all of the dissenting voter-fraud arguments.

[wufan]

This just in, CBS news (I'm watching right now) just reported cyber experts are suspecting Russians behind the cyber attacks against Wolf Creek.

I know this could change (and often does as evidence is developed), but it would be ironic if some of the Russian interference deniers here lived close to Neosho Rapids (that's about as close as I can place Wolf Creek) and ended up glowing in the dark if they actually infiltrated the reactor.

I'm betting the odds on this, though, are long. I'm betting the servers controlling the reactors run on a separate, completely segregated subnet.

Not even Trump is denying that the Russians tried to interfere with the election at this point.

[wufan]

Sure we can have a difference of opinions, and I am fine with that. But what's the point of coming on here if you aren't either 1) going to support your opinion with some facts or 2) listen to the other side? That was my point regarding pinstripers.

Regarding your vote being important certainly, but see my post above on where the line is. I only want citizens voting, but I also understand that making it more difficult for illegals makes it more difficult for legal citizens. Can you at least empathize with someone being poor, not having a driver's license and not having a copy of their birth certificate? Doesn't seem like a stretch, so basically you think they should just figure out how to find the financial means to vote? It doesn't matter what someone spends their money on, how they live, they have an inalienable right to vote without having to pay end of story(assuming not guilty of a federal offense).

I find it amusing you think I'm on the left. I am a registered Libertarian, and usually in the past have sided with Republicans, but the Republicans have gone down a path I do not support. I would prefer very low federal taxes, but that would imply I trust the state of Kansas to pick up the slack and understand our local needs better.

I have no ulterior agenda, I want citizens and ONLY citizens to be free and able to vote by whatever means necessary, and I see the ways both sides have manipulated laws AND districts to suppress those that disagree claiming it's just to prevent illegal voting, but the reality is it is blatant suppression.

I think everyone here is in agreement that getting a voter ID should be as easy as registering to vote and be of zero financial burden.

[wufan]

I'm also going to follow up with my VERY non-PC personal opinion. If you can't figure out how to get a voter ID, what business do you have casting a ballot on who should be the leader of the free world?

[pinstripers]

Sure we can have a difference of opinions, and I am fine with that. But what's the point of coming on here if you aren't either 1) going to support your opinion with some facts or 2) listen to the other side? That was my point regarding pinstripers.

Regarding your vote being important certainly, but see my post above on where the line is. I only want citizens voting, but I also understand that making it more difficult for illegals makes it more difficult for legal citizens. Can you at least empathize with someone being poor, not having a driver's license and not having a copy of their birth certificate? Doesn't seem like a stretch, so basically you think they should just figure out how to find the financial means to vote? It doesn't matter what someone spends their money on, how they live, they have an inalienable right to vote without having to pay end of story(assuming not guilty of a federal offense).

I find it amusing you think I'm on the left. I am a registered Libertarian, and usually in the past have sided with Republicans, but the Republicans have gone down a path I do not support. I would prefer very low federal taxes, but that would imply I trust the state of Kansas to pick up the slack and understand our local needs better.

I have no ulterior agenda, I want citizens and ONLY citizens to be free and able to vote by whatever means necessary, and I see the ways both sides have manipulated laws AND districts to suppress those that disagree claiming it's just to prevent illegal voting, but the reality is it is blatant suppression.

Just go get an ID

[wufan]

Here's another...if we are okay with illeagals voting here, why not open up the POTUS election to all of North America? That may sound absurd, but why should Americans be the only people allowed to vote? Everyone is impacted.