Trump

[Kung Wu]

Everyone should be against voter fraud.

And FOR beer vouchers!

[Jamar Howard 4 President]

But that is based on the assumption they actually registered. Also vastly overstating people's ability to get a driver's license with registration using an out of state license: https://www.ksrevenue.org/dovproof.html. Those are the requirements in Kansas to get your first Kansas license, which no matter your status requires an item from list A and there is an entirely different process for non-citizens. I expect most states have this type of policy. EDIT: Here's Colorado's policy: https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/dmv/new-colorado-0 Similar for first time state applicants.

I think you have a point regarding turning a California ID into another state's ID. Funny thing is that I asked about this from the beginning.

If you have facts to dispute whether it is possible to get an ID in another state based on already having a California ID, please present them. I'm not sure why you are taking this into conspiracy theory territory when there are much simpler scenarios to explore.

Khan made up a strawman about people moving just so they could vote in other states (nobody claimed they did)
Khan claimed that not enough people move for this topic to be relevant (despite reality that millions of Californians move out of state each year)
ShockCrazy, you backed Khan up that the numbers were too small to matter.

I'm not sure why you guys didn't jump straight to discussing the difficulty of converting to other state IDs. That probably should have been the focus of discussion all along.

[ShockCrazy]

I think you have a point regarding turning a California ID into another state's ID. Funny thing is that I asked about this from the beginning.



Khan made up a strawman about people moving just so they could vote in other states (nobody claimed they did)
Khan claimed that not enough people move for this topic to be relevant (despite reality that millions of Californians move out of state each year)
ShockCrazy, you backed Khan up that the numbers were too small to matter.

I'm not sure why you guys didn't jump straight to discussing the difficulty of converting to other state IDs. That probably should have been the focus of discussion all along.

Meh I was just going off of your numbers point. I was not even looking at the legality of such a thing. Reading more, these licenses are NOT valid identification and nor are people registered for voting. Much ado about nothing. http://www.dmv.org/ca-california/ab-...rs-license.php Basically it is only used to verify the that the operator of a vehicle is legal to do so. Seems like a reasonable way to not have to track down illegals but also ensure safer driving.

[pinstripers]

Agreed, there are certainly non-citizens who vote and yes it's certainly more than the number who have been found guilty and even have been prosecuted. But until a single voter id law is presented with a provision for funding and accessibility of FREE state identification, I'm going to assume the real purpose of the law is a poll tax/voter suppression.

Why would anybody assume that?

[ShockCrazy]

Why would anybody assume that?

You really don't know the history and logistics of these laws? https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/u...-carolina.html Most of the time voter id laws aren't really about illegal immigrants(that's just a perk), it's usually to target the poor, sometimes that targets minorities sometimes not, regardless it's an affront to democracy. Can't find the article for it, but they then began a proposal to allow free identification, but the state identification office would be not at the DMV and would also be only required to be open something like 10-20 hours a week. Allowing them to target areas to close licensing offices to close for "cost" reasons. Kansas specific: http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-...131141899.html

[pinstripers]

Everybody goes batshit crazy cause the Russians might have voted for Trump, but nobody cares if Hillary gets votes from non-Americans.

[ShockCrazy]

Everybody goes batshit crazy cause the Russians might have voted for Trump, but nobody cares if Hillary gets votes from non-Americans.

Seriously that's what you've got? I don't want non-citizens to vote FULL STOP. But I also have the understanding and can critically think about how and why an illegal would vote to understand it's likely not common as some would have you believe. And that's even before looking at the numbers of the situation. What ratio is acceptable to you of genuine citizens being unable to vote versus illegal citizens getting to vote? It certainly lies somewhere since I'm assuming you want to vote, so obviously we can't prevent all elections. So where does the line lie? 1000 unable to per 1 illegal prevented? More? Less? I choose to err much more on the side of not preventing legal citizens to vote for their representation. Also assuming all voted for Hillary is kinda laughable. Probably don't wanna take hard look at the Cuban community do you?

[pinstripers]

I think everyone who is a citizen should vote. (they don't) You think requiring an ID would cause less of them to vote? (it might, maybe, but that's just a guess) You think some illegals voted for trump. (I doubt it).

[ShockCrazy]

I think everyone who is a citizen should vote. (they don't) You think requiring an ID would cause less of them to vote? (it might, maybe, but that's just a guess) You think some illegals voted for trump. (I doubt it).

Seriously? You know anything about the Cuban community? http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...-backed-trump/ And that's a low vote for a Republican candidate in that community, likely due to his stances. I would also argue that illegal Cuban voters is MORE likely than other nationalities due to less risk of deportation
Also it will absolutely reduce the vote. If one person cannot get the identification for financial or time reasons, it has reduced the vote. And it is absolutely the case.

[pinstripers]

Certainly will reduce the number of illegals voting.

[pinstripers]

No, I know nothing about the "Cuban community."

[ShockCrazy]

No, I know nothing about the "Cuban community."

Then perhaps you shouldn't make assumptions without having knowledge? I'm going to guess you didn't even bother looking at any articles I linked?

[pinstripers]

Wow. Good guess.

[ShockCrazy]

Wow. Good guess.

Then honestly, why are you here? Isn't the point of a political forum to have discourse and share information and knowledge to help understand policy that shapes our country? If you aren't going to bother learning, you aren't going to bother supporting your arguments, and you don't care to have evolving opinions, what is the point?

[MoValley John]

Then honestly, why are you here? Isn't the point of a political forum to have discourse and share information and knowledge to help understand policy that shapes our country? If you aren't going to bother learning, you aren't going to bother supporting your arguments, and you don't care to have evolving opinions, what is the point?

To be fair, this is now the politics guns and beer forum. Politics might be on his mind. Then again, he could be here for the guns.
Or beer.