Trump

[ShockBand]

I totally agree with all of this. The "hold my beer" remark especially. At some point, the election turned into a contest of which side could "out-asshole" the other side. This time the Republican asshole won.

The term "out-asshole" merits a t-shirt, IMHO.

[wufan]

Yup, one only needs to look at Brownback to see that. And he even got re-elected. A true village idiot in search of a village, since he tried to snag that ambassadorship from Trump.

For what he did to Kansas, he ought to get a lifetime appointment as the ambassador to Waste Management, and have his office at the largest garbage dump in the world.

Brown back may have screwed up the revenue, but what did he do to step on liberties?

[Aargh]

Brown back may have screwed up the revenue, but what did he do to step on liberties?

Brownback bankrupted the state. It is likely to take 20 years to recover from the damage he and the ultra-conservative legislature did to Kansas.

We need to replace about a billion dollars in KDOT to put them back in the position they were in before Brownback. We need to pay off about another billion in borrowings Brownback used to balance the budget when his tax "experiment" didn't work the way Laffer said it would.

There is going to have to be a huge tax increase to pay for Brownback's tax policies that mostly benefited a few very large campaign donors. I'm on Social Security. Brownback's policies raised sales taxes twice, which means I have to spend more on necessities, which leaves me less ability to spend money on things I might want to spend money on. Is that not taking away some of my liberties? If I'm eating pork loin at $1.59 a pound instead of an occasional ribeye at $7.99 a pound is that not taking away any of my liberties?

Is having your liberties more important to you than living in a state that can pay its' bills? What about my liberties, do those matter, or is it only your liberties that are important?

[wufan]

Brownback bankrupted the state. It is likely to take 20 years to recover from the damage he and the ultra-conservative legislature did to Kansas.

We need to replace about a billion dollars in KDOT to put them back in the position they were in before Brownback. We need to pay off about another billion in borrowings Brownback used to balance the budget when his tax "experiment" didn't work the way Laffer said it would.

There is going to have to be a huge tax increase to pay for Brownback's tax policies that mostly benefited a few very large campaign donors. I'm on Social Security. Brownback's policies raised sales taxes twice, which means I have to spend more on necessities, which leaves me less ability to spend money on things I might want to spend money on. Is that not taking away some of my liberties? If I'm eating pork loin at $1.59 a pound instead of an occasional ribeye at $7.99 a pound is that not taking away any of my liberties?

Is having your liberties more important to you than living in a state that can pay its' bills? What about my liberties, do those matter, or is it only your liberties that are important?

Your described unfortunate circumstance is not a lack of liberty, but a lack of economic resources.

In my view liberty is more important than finances. You may feel different. Your liberties are equally important to mine. Economic resource is not a liberty. What liberties has Brownback removed?

[BOBB]

Your described unfortunate circumstance is not a lack of liberty, but a lack of economic resources.

In my view liberty is more important than finances. You may feel different. Your liberties are equally important to mine. Economic resource is not a liberty. What liberties has Brownback removed?

Voted for the PATRIOT act for starters. Restricted abortion. Suppressed the vote, our most fundamental liberty. Shifting the state's tax burden from the wealthy to the middle and working class may not be a direct impingement on liberty, but to Aargh's point, if my pursuit of happiness is suddenly limited to a TV dinner and antenna TV, what's the difference?

[wufan]

Voted for the PATRIOT act for starters. Restricted abortion. Suppressed the vote, our most fundamental liberty. Shifting the state's tax burden from the wealthy to the middle and working class may not be a direct impingement on liberty, but to Aargh's point, if my pursuit of happiness is suddenly limited to a TV dinner and antenna TV, what's the difference?

I'm not at all a fan of Brownback, but...the original claim was that govenors are suppressing liberty; followed by Brownback is a great example. Voting for the federal PATRIOT act is not a gubernatorial suppression of liberty, it's a federal one.

Restricting abortion is an interesting one. One of the key principles to liberty is that our liberties can't overstep others liberties. That's why abortion is such a difficult topic. In my view any person that enacts laws for or against abortion is suppressing liberty for one side or the other.

Not aware of suppressing the vote, but I will give you that if true.

Finally, poor economic decisions by government are not tied to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness. That phrase basically means: the gov can't kill me, suppress my freedom to choose, or take anyones property without due process.

[pinstripers]

Suppressed the vote? No. Restricted your access to abortion? No. Been a bad gov, yeah.

[WuDrWu]

Oh bullshit. Saying votes are being "suppressed" because they require ID is worse than saying they slashed spending by slowing the already built in growth of future year's spending from 5% to 4%. I'm so sick of that argument.

And yes, it's a terrible public tragedy that QT doesn't have a suction curette next to the Rooster Booster so that any scared 14 year old can clear up their problems on the fly.

My tax accountant might have something to say about your burden locale whine.

[WuDrWu]

I'm on Social Security. Brownback's policies raised sales taxes twice, which means I have to spend more on necessities, which leaves me less ability to spend money on things I might want to spend money on. Is that not taking away some of my liberties? If I'm eating pork loin at $1.59 a pound instead of an occasional ribeye at $7.99 a pound is that not taking away any of my liberties?

They did? Can you tell me when the state sales tax increased under Brownback? My record search shows he took office in January 2011. In July of 2013 the state sales tax was LOWERED from 6.3% to 6.15%. Perhaps in Liberalism that's considered a raise but IDK.

Then in July of 2015 it was raised to the current 6.5% (the county tax of 1% which he has nothing to do with has remained constant). So my research shows 2 years of a .15% decrease and let's call it 2 years of a .35% increase.

If you get 2k from SS a month and spent 100% on state sales taxable events (all but impossible) then Gov. Brownback "saved" you $72 for the first two years and "cost" you $168 over the next two, for a net cost of $96 over 4 years. I totally disagree with your assertion that your liberties are being infringed anyway, but I doubt $96 over 4 years changes how you operate at all, much less the frequency of pork loin to ribeye carousel.

[Aargh]

There was a temporary sales tax that was passed to avoid bankrupting the state due to the 2008 recession. When the legislature enacted that temporary tax, they set an end date on it. By law, that sales tax would end during Brownback's term in office.

Brownback and the legislature kept a good chunk of that "temporary" tax and then claimed to have "lowered" sales taxes because they didn't continue collecting all of it forever. I don't remember the exact percentage sales taxes would have dropped to in July, 2013, but I believe they were set to drop to 6.0%. Brownback and the legislature just set the rate at 6.15% and claimed to have lowered sales taxes, when they would have been 6.0% (if I recall correctly) had Brownback and the legislature not "lowered" the sales tax.

You don't lower sales taxes by raising them, but it's a nice try.

[Aargh]

On the subject of voter suppression...

At one time there were close to 50,000 people on a list (that's no longer maintained) who registered to vote in Kansas, but didn't have their birth certificate with them. It doesn't occur to many people to take their birth certificate with them to get their driver's license.

People keep saying there's no problem with requiring an ID to vote. That is misstating the issue made by those who oppose Kris Kobach's voter rules. Showing an ID to vote is not the problem. Producing a birth certificate in order to register to vote is the problem. Birth certificates are often lost. There's a $28 charge to get a duplicate birth certificate.

If the state wants to provide duplicate birth certificates at no charge for purposes of registering to vote, then the problem with providing a birth certificate to vote is solved. The current situation is a poll tax in disguise, which is why Kobach's voter laws are not making it past the courts.

[wufan]

There was a temporary sales tax that was passed to avoid bankrupting the state due to the 2008 recession. When the legislature enacted that temporary tax, they set an end date on it. By law, that sales tax would end during Brownback's term in office.

Brownback and the legislature kept a good chunk of that "temporary" tax and then claimed to have "lowered" sales taxes because they didn't continue collecting all of it forever. I don't remember the exact percentage sales taxes would have dropped to in July, 2013, but I believe they were set to drop to 6.0%. Brownback and the legislature just set the rate at 6.15% and claimed to have lowered sales taxes, when they would have been 6.0% (if I recall correctly) had Brownback and the legislature not "lowered" the sales tax.

You don't lower sales taxes by raising them, but it's a nice try.

Bottom line on this:

1. Raising taxes is not an assault on liberty. It's something totally different.

2. Whether it's $50 over four years or $500 over four years, those are insignificant numbers that could not possibly compensate for the services the state grants to you and others.

[WuDrWu]

There was a temporary sales tax that was passed to avoid bankrupting the state due to the 2008 recession. When the legislature enacted that temporary tax, they set an end date on it. By law, that sales tax would end during Brownback's term in office.

Brownback and the legislature kept a good chunk of that "temporary" tax and then claimed to have "lowered" sales taxes because they didn't continue collecting all of it forever. I don't remember the exact percentage sales taxes would have dropped to in July, 2013, but I believe they were set to drop to 6.0%. Brownback and the legislature just set the rate at 6.15% and claimed to have lowered sales taxes, when they would have been 6.0% (if I recall correctly) had Brownback and the legislature not "lowered" the sales tax.

You don't lower sales taxes by raising them, but it's a nice try.

Thanks for the info. I went off the state's own spreadsheet. Do you have a link or anything to the sunset clause? I'm not questioning your understanding, just that I'd like to read what it was supposed to be returned to.

Apparently, in conservatism, lowering is raising lol. I'll be 1st in line to call a spade a tax increase. Using your numbers then, and my spending assumptions, we're talking about $240 in 4 years on $96,000 in spending. It doesn't change the fact that you exaggerate the tax penalty to make it appear your liberties are somehow being wiped away. Nobody wants taxes lowered more than I, and I think we should cut state spending to cover a sales tax exemption for groceries.

[WuDrWu]

On the subject of voter suppression...

At one time there were close to 50,000 people on a list (that's no longer maintained) who registered to vote in Kansas, but didn't have their birth certificate with them. It doesn't occur to many people to take their birth certificate with them to get their driver's license.

People keep saying there's no problem with requiring an ID to vote. That is misstating the issue made by those who oppose Kris Kobach's voter rules. Showing an ID to vote is not the problem. Producing a birth certificate in order to register to vote is the problem. Birth certificates are often lost. There's a $28 charge to get a duplicate birth certificate.

If the state wants to provide duplicate birth certificates at no charge for purposes of registering to vote, then the problem with providing a birth certificate to vote is solved. The current situation is a poll tax in disguise, which is why Kobach's voter laws are not making it past the courts.

Again, I'm all for the free birth certificate for those in question. The inability to pay the fee probably accounts for roughly half a dozen people who actually were aware of a vote and wanted to but couldn't. And probably a few dozen cases of voter fraud. I'll take that tradeoff, but I still want the free birth certificate. You can send me the bill for those that want it, need it and can't find it. Should cost me dozens.

[SB Shock]

On the subject of voter suppression...

At one time there were close to 50,000 people on a list (that's no longer maintained) who registered to vote in Kansas, but didn't have their birth certificate with them. It doesn't occur to many people to take their birth certificate with them to get their driver's license.

People keep saying there's no problem with requiring an ID to vote. That is misstating the issue made by those who oppose Kris Kobach's voter rules. Showing an ID to vote is not the problem. Producing a birth certificate in order to register to vote is the problem. Birth certificates are often lost. There's a $28 charge to get a duplicate birth certificate.

If the state wants to provide duplicate birth certificates at no charge for purposes of registering to vote, then the problem with providing a birth certificate to vote is solved. The current situation is a poll tax in disguise, which is why Kobach's voter laws are not making it past the courts.

To work in the U.S. you have to provide the following - 1 Unexpired Item from either Group A or B, and 1 unexpired item from Group C. So I don't see why having to show you are a U.S. citizen is that big of deal - if you want to work in the U.S. you better have your documentation - why shouldn't you have to provide similiar documentation to register to vote.

Group A

1. U.S. Passport or U.S. Passport Card
2. Permanent Resident Card or Alien Registration Receipt Card (Form I-551)
3. Foreign passport that contains a temporary I-551 stamp or temporary I-551 printed notation on a machine-readable immigrant visa
4. Employment Authorization Document that contains a photograph (Form I-766)
5. For a nonimmigrant alien authorized to work for a specific employer because of his or her status:
   1. Foreign passport; and
   2. Form I-94 or Form I-94A that has the following:
      1. The same name as the passport; and
      2. An endorsement of the alien's nonimmigrant status, as long as the period of endorsement has not yet expired and the proposed employment is not in conflict with any restrictions or limitations identified on the form.
      
      
   
   
6. A passport from the Federated States of Micronesia (FSM) or the Republic of the Marshall Islands (RMI) with Form I-94 or Form I-94A indicating nonimmigrant admission under the Compact of Free Association Between the United States and the FSM or RMI

Group B

1. Driver's license or ID card issued by a state or outlying possession of the United States, provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color, and address
2. ID card issued by federal, state, or local government agencies or entities, provided it contains a photograph or information such as name, date of birth, gender, height, eye color, and address
3. School ID card with a photograph
4. Voter's registration card
5. U.S. military card or draft record
6. Military dependent's ID card
7. U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner card
8. Native American tribal document
9. Driver's license issued by a Canadian government authority
10. School record or report card
11. Clinic, doctor, or hospital record
12. Day-care or nursery school record

Group C

1. A Social Security Account Number card, unless the card includes one of the following restrictions:*
   (1) NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT
   (2) VALID FOR WORK ONLY WITH INS AUTHORIZATION
   (3) VALID FOR WORK ONLY WITH DHS AUTHORIZATION
2. Certification of Birth Abroad issued by the Department of State (Form FS-545)
3. Certification of Report of Birth issued by the Department of State (Form DS-1350)
4. Original or certified copy of birth certificate issued by a State, county, municipal authority, or territory of the United States bearing an official seal
5. Native American tribal document
6. U.S. Citizen ID Card (Form I-197)
7. Identification Card for Use of Resident Citizen in the United States (Form I-179)
8. Employment authorization document issued by the Department of Homeland Security