Trump

[ShockingButTrue]

I'm not angry at him. He is just a liar and a narcissist which is bad news for America. Why do you support someone who lies over 2/3rds of the time

[wufan]

Trump helped the Russians hack into the Dems computers?

[WuDrWu]

Russia is lilely blackmailing trump and not friendly with them but they did get into bed together with the whole hacking thing.

You've made some good arguments, at times, and I can understand (some) of your concerns and you're entitled to them, but crap like that just makes you look like you shotgunned the bong water. Give it a rest.

[wufan]

Weren't Manaforts payments from the Russian lobbyist back in 2006-10?

[wufan]

So it's not REALLY the payments we are concerned about, rather it's the covert lobbying agency.

[jdshock]

Weren't Manaforts payments from the Russian lobbyist back in 2006-10?

This kind of sentence exemplifies the hypocrisy on both sides. @wufan:, I don't remember you specifically making the kinds of comments I'm discussing, so don't take this as directed at you. This is a general statement about both sides. In fact, I'm sure it indicts me more than you.

Many republicans would regularly say "Clinton received money directly from terrorists" or Saudi Arabia or whatever. Liberals would add nuance to the discussion, so that it didn't seem like a major issue to them, even if it was still a problem for opponents of Clinton. Now, liberals just say "Manafort was paid off by the Russian government." Republicans respond by adding nuance to the discussion. Obviously a liberal can still have a problem with the sentence you wrote that I'm quoting, but it's so much easier, and seems so much more persuasive, to just say "Manafort is an insider with the Russian government, we know 100% because of paycheck stubs."

If Trump is as bad as I think he is, there's going to be proof soon enough of something, whatever that may be. In the meantime, liberals need to just relax and stick to the exact facts.

[wufan]

This kind of sentence exemplifies the hypocrisy on both sides. @wufan:, I don't remember you specifically making the kinds of comments I'm discussing, so don't take this as directed at you. This is a general statement about both sides. In fact, I'm sure it indicts me more than you.

Many republicans would regularly say "Clinton received money directly from terrorists" or Saudi Arabia or whatever. Liberals would add nuance to the discussion, so that it didn't seem like a major issue to them, even if it was still a problem for opponents of Clinton. Now, liberals just say "Manafort was paid off by the Russian government." Republicans respond by adding nuance to the discussion. Obviously a liberal can still have a problem with the sentence you wrote that I'm quoting, but it's so much easier, and seems so much more persuasive, to just say "Manafort is an insider with the Russian government, we know 100% because of paycheck stubs."

If Trump is as bad as I think he is, there's going to be proof soon enough of something, whatever that may be. In the meantime, liberals need to just relax and stick to the exact facts.

Totally understand this. I'm just trying to figure out what the rub is exactly. If it's payments from the last decade, okay. If it's a pro-Russian coalition, okay. Once I understand the concern, then I can understand how Trump rigged the election.

[ShockingButTrue]

Rigged the election?

[ShockingButTrue]

...

[shocka khan]

Totally understand this. I'm just trying to figure out what the rub is exactly. If it's payments from the last decade, okay. If it's a pro-Russian coalition, okay. Once I understand the concern, then I can understand how Trump rigged the election.

Not sure I saw you specifically address this one, but here's option #3
Mannefort and Carter Page reached out to the Russian government and hired hackers (or elisted hackers) for the express purpose of disseminating fake news on Hillary Clinton. Provided this is true, it would not surprise me if Flynn was involved as well. Money may or may not have exchanged hands, as Putin wanted Hillary defeated at all costs.

Unsure whether Trump was involved, I believe to tie Trump to this would require some evidence (email, phone call, memorandum, eye witness testimony etc.). Also unsure about the level of coordination and collusion going on. Could be an 'independent gang' or it could be everyone in the campaign. Remember, Nixon did not know anything about Watergate until after it happened. What got him impeached was he obstructed justice in the cover-up.

Also fits in to the comments by a Senate (I believe) democrat who flatly stated there would be people going to jail over this. The 'some people' would be Carter Page, Mannefort and perhaps Micheal Flynn at a minimum, no telling whom else, we won't know until the investigation is much further along.

[SB Shock]

Oh and manafort, a former trump campaign manager, is registering as foreign agent.

So should democrat Tony Podesta have registered as a foreign agent when he was representing Russia largest bank as lobbyist?

Should Hillary have allowed "foreign registered agents" to raise money for her campaign? When clinton campaign was debating whether to let these guys raise money, Clinton campaign communication director said

Take the Money"

Robby Mook said

I’m okay just taking the money and dealing with any attacks.

[wufan]

I'm not really okay with the rationalization that the other team did it so we can to. I'm also not okay with treating Trump differently than Clinton was treated. Both things stink. If Trump was in cahoots with the Russians - not okay. I certainly take a more wait and see approach than witch hunt approach.

[SB Shock]

Yeah podesta should have registered. Trump has had 4 foreign agents on his campaign team. I have stated multiple times this isnt a us vs them issue and that is what you trump supporters are making it. I'm against all corruption no matter what side but all trump people do is just say but hillary. Hillary isn't ths president so yeah I'm going to focus way more on our actual president.

The problem is never heard you say one thing for the 8 years that Democrats where in power, flaunting and breaking the law. So I see you more of "hater" than a "rule of law" type person.

[wufan]

The problem is never heard you say one thing for the 8 years that Democrats where in power, flaunting and breaking the law. So I see you more of "hater" than a "rule of law" type person.

Since Trump is a liar that lies far more often than Hillary, he can't be supported. He therefore deserves to be be taken to task for this. @seskridge:, please correct me if I am wrong on this opinion.

[MoValley John]

That map shows the least populated area as red and the most populated areas as blue. Your memes make you look stupid. They prove nothing. Russians hacking and propaganda influenced the election. Again, why is trumps team so bent on communicating way more with the russians than any other country especially since russia is our enemy. And why lie about all the communications. I'm interested in what graphic you have next.

I'd say someone rigged the jpg. There are several errors in the map as Wisconsin and Michigan need to be red, while Nevada needs to be blue.

Also, your take is incorrect, unless you consider Florida, Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania as some of the least populated states. You would then also have to consider Minnesota, Maine, New Mexico, Oregon, Rhode Island and others as some of the most populous states.

The election is over. Time to move on.