Trump

[WstateU]

https://mobile.twitter.com/dmartosko/status/843998803636174849/video/1

[shocka khan]

Will you be happy when the investigation is over?

I would be happy if there had been no investigation.

Trump surrounds himself with a bunch of people who have contacts with the Kremlin (Flynn, Roger Stone, Manafort, et al).
Said people put their foot in a bucket of **** because they're greedy and stupid.
Media starts a feeding frenzy over the optics of the whole situation.
Trump makes up **** to try to take attention (and heat) away from himself.
Trump gets exposed on national television (in a Senate hearing, no less) as a liar and a fraud.

See where this is going?

It's not going to end well, people are watching.....

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/19/president-trumps-approval-rating-dips-further-as-americans-eye-key-policies.html

Probably one term, if not less than that. I still think he's better than Hillary would have been, but the distance between them keeps shrinking. I would like to see the Dems lock Hillary in a rubber room. I DON'T want to see her run again.....

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/19/president-trumps-approval-rating-dips-further-as-americans-eye-key-policies.html

By the way, did something yellow crawl up on her head and die?!?

[WstateU]

And?? A trump rally is suppose to prove what? Let's remember there are more beaker fans than that and they are dumb so I don't know what this is trying to prove.

Will trump fans accept the results of the investigation if it is bad for trump

Sorry, must admit I’m ‘trolling’… trying to catch a big one.

Oh, I’m not sure many of us are big “Trump fans”; fortunately/unfortunately he beats the alternative.

[SB Shock]

Interesting the republicans are only interested in the leakers and not the russia part.

The leaking is serious stuff. You realize when this stuff gets leaked to the NYT, it actually a warning to those who are being investigated that they are being investigated. That allows them to destroy potential evidence and to cover-up their wrong doing.

That is why the NYT has did did their stories on the wire tapping of Trump associates and his campaign. It was to give him warning. The demorats don't want Trump removed - it all theatre. Democrats actually got their best alternative to Hillary (he not a conservative). If he removed ( if impeached - it won't be the worse thing for the republicans because I do believe Pence is a conservative).

[SB Shock]

There is no wire tapping.

Then how did they monitor Flynn conversations? Hooker?

Yes, leaking is crazy but what is worse potential treason or leaking to stop potential treason.

Leaking is a criminal act. Leaks are not meant to stop, but to warn. Leaks actually hamper criminal investigations.

Both should be investigated but the Republicans don't seem tp care to know if there was collusion or not.

Congressional/special prosecutor investigations are worthless and just for scoring political points.

[shocka khan]

Then how did they monitor Flynn conversations? Hooker?



Leaking is a criminal act. Leaks are not meant to stop, but to warn. Leaks actually hamper criminal investigations.



Congressional/special prosecutor investigations are worthless and just for scoring political points.

1. Flynn's interactions with Russian diplomats occurred when Obama was president.
2. As president, Obama can declassify anything he wants to (just like Trump with his bogus 'wiretapp' claims)
3. Even if Obama did not declassify it, information was readily available BEFORE Trump took office, so if someone in Obama's admin leaked it (and they're probably gone), what is Trump going to do about it?

Seems like some people are jumping to the conclusion that someone leaked this stuff AFTER Trump got inaugurated. Especially with Flynn, there were many warning signs as to what was happening. Trump just chose to ignore them. He did a very poor job vetting this man. Cummings wrote him a letter detailing Flynn's lobbing on behalf of Turkey during the election and it was totally ignored by Trump.

Same for Mannefort. Don't know too much about the other two characters.

Trump either fancied using Flynn as a foil, or believed he would be expendable at some point. Perhaps the same for Mannefort. Trump may have used him as a conduit to the Russians and once he had the connections, it was an easy exercise to throw him under the bus.

Trump exhibits all the symptoms of a person caught in a criminal act. Denial, finger pointing and outright lying to try to divert attention. If I had been advising him, I would have definitely told him not to tweet about Obama tapping his phones. It only backfired on him. Fighting fire with fire is fine, as long as you know what is going to happen to the main fire after you light the fire line. He did not.

[Aargh]

I've heard rumblings that there are people gathering efvidence to institute impeachment proceedings. I'm not confident of the source of these rumblings, but they bring up an interesting point.

The rumblings were attribitued to a Republican member of Congress.

The Dems would obviously like to see an impeachment, but the Repubs might like it even better.

1) The Republican establishment didn't care for Trump - AT ALL - until well after he secured the nomination.
2) Trump delivered the White House to the Repubs, which they could hardly expect.
3) If Trump is impeached, they still have the White House, and they get rid of - let's call it a possible problem.
5) the Repubs may have a better chance at maintaining control of Congress in 2018 without Trump.
6) Pence might be a better candidate than Trump in 2020.

[CBB_Fan]

More on the Russia connections from the Associated Press:

AP Exclusive: Manafort had plan to benefit Putin government

President Donald Trump's former campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, secretly worked for a Russian billionaire to advance the interests of Russian President Vladimir Putin a decade ago and proposed an ambitious political strategy to undermine anti-Russian opposition across former Soviet republics, The Associated Press has learned. The work appears to contradict assertions by the Trump administration and Manafort himself that he never worked for Russian interests.

...

Manafort was Trump's campaign manager for 6 months, including during the DNC leaks. He moved into Trump Tower in 2006, a year after our only known information on Trump's taxes. The Ukrainian government has recently confirmed reported that Manafort received $12.7M in undisclosed cash payments from Russia under the books while working as campaign manager for Ukraine's pro-Russia party. There is also evidence of Ukranian blackmail towards Manafort through leaked text messages from his daughter.

Those are the facts. Here is my editorialization: This is extremely damning.

We have very hard evidence that Trump's campaign manager worked for Russia to covertly push the policies of the Putin government while receiving large sums of money under the table. We know Manafort was campaign manager when the Trump campaign allegedly worked with the Russians to maximize the effect of the DNC leaks. If the 2005 taxes were leaked by someone in the White House to exonerate Trump, it is possible that the Trump-Russia connection would have shown up only after Manafort moved into Trump Tower in 2006, which is why specifically 2005 would have been released.

[Aargh]

According to the AP, Manafort proposed that he distribute what would now be called "fake news" in Europe and the USA to favorably influence russian policies. Here's the appropriate paragraph and a link:

Manafort proposed in a confidential strategy plan as early as June 2005 that he would influence politics, business dealings and news coverage inside the United States, Europe and the former Soviet republics to benefit the Putin government, even as U.S.-Russia relations under Republican President George W. Bush grew worse. Manafort pitched the plans to Russian aluminum magnate Oleg Deripaska, a close Putin ally with whom Manafort eventually signed a $10 million annual contract beginning in 2006, according to interviews with several people familiar with payments to Manafort and business records obtained by the AP. Manafort and Deripaska maintained a business relationship until at least 2009, according to one person familiar with the work.

http://www.kwch.com/content/news/Manafort-had-plan-to-benefit-Putin-government-416807853.html

[SB Shock]

Judicial Watch has a good article on the FBI counter-intelligence operation. Four individuals are being targeted.

[Aargh]

When did Trump go all birther movement? Was it after Manafort moved into Trump towers? If this Russian infiltration into the Republican party has been going on for a decade, I'd assume the vast majority of higher up Republicans are some how involved in this. This investigation is going to take years! Welcome to the United States of Russia.

I don't believe the connections you are making can be supported.

The "birther" thing seems to be mainly based on Trump's absolute hatred of Obama. It's possible there could be a connection to others, but Trump's hatred, alone, could easily have fueled his entire "birther" thing. If you want to draw a connection between Trump's hatred of Obama and the fact that Trump has a history of refusing to rent to people of color, that might be in play.

There is absolutely nothing linking the Republican Party to any of Trump's or his staff's Russian connections. The vast majority of higher up Republicans were trying to figure out a way to deny him the candidacy even after he won it in the primaries. They don't like him, but right now they don't have a choice. That can change - and in a hurry.

[CBB_Fan]

When did Trump go all birther movement? Was it after Manafort moved into Trump towers? If this Russian infiltration into the Republican party has been going on for a decade, I'd assume the vast majority of higher up Republicans are some how involved in this. This investigation is going to take years! Welcome to the United States of Russia.

Manafort moved into Trump Towers before Obama had even announced his candidacy. Now Obama had earlier attacks against him calling him a crypto-Muslim going back to 2004, but the first real Birtherism stuff started in 2008 (even though people started calling him a madrassa educated Muslim almost the instant he announced in 2007).

Trump didn't get involved until 2011. Famously, he demanded Obama's birth certificate. In April 2011 Obama released his long-form birth certificate and 3 days later at the White House Correspondents Dinner Obama roasted Trump for 5 minutes (largely over said scandal). It was this roast that many credit led to Trump's commitment to run for President.

As far as connections to Republicans, the only high-ranking Republicans with any signs of dirt on them are Manafort and Jeff Sessions. Flynn, who also has been confirmed to have taken money from the Russians, was actually a Democrat. And birtherism's big shot in the arm came from Democratic opposition to Obama in the 2008 primaries. No current Republican Congressmen have shown any signs of Russian entanglement.

[shocka khan]

Well with the leaked text from Manafort's daughters we know they, Trump and Manafort, are in cahoots. I bet anything that Manafort and his desire to implement fake news may be the reason Trump with birther movement. We know from the dossier, much of which is starting to be confirmed, that Trump has been cultivated and supported as a presidential candidate by Russia for over five years. Also, the way the Republicans were acting at the hearing suggests they aren't super concerned about Trump and Russia. They, the Republican part, should've never supported him.

I may be inclined to believe MOST of what you're saying, but certainly not ALL of it. I saw some articles regards Manafort's daughters, their emails are very damning. However, I don't believe anyone has connected this to Trump as yet. Show me something that connects the emails from Mannefort's daughters to Trump.

I have to agree, I believe we were sold a pig in a poke with Trump, and there will be some scandal and fallout from this. Trump's behavior makes him look guilty and is consistent with someone confronted with evidence of a crime. HOWEVER, there is no solid evidence that has been shared with the general public that confirms Trump was involved.

Please excuse me for conflating individual posts in this thread, but my opinion is Trump could be in real jeopardy over the emoluments clause of the constitution. There are lawsuits being filed as we speak. Any discovery from a civil trial would be usable for evidence in a criminal proceeding (impeachment). Right now, the Russia thing stinks, but the road to impeachment would be much more difficult from that angle.

The only way Trump can keep the emoluments clause from being in play would be to immediately end any and all conflicts of interest (he won't), settle the suits out of court (he won't) and seal the records so no one can use them against him.

However, since his arrogance is his biggest liability it will continue to be his biggest liability, which means it could also bring him down.

[shocka khan]

I absolutely agree that the public has no physical evidence of trump and russia but lets remember 1. People are convicted of murder on circumstantial evidence 2. Looking at how much is public, I'm guessing the FBI has a ton of other evidence and is making it's case air tight.

Unless you absolutely know what the circumstantial evidence is, while your statement is correct on the surface, it is an exaggeration. Only the DOJ (who might potentially prosecute) and the FBI know.

I'm sure the FBI has some lawyers looking at the evidence even as we speak, but since it's classified, we don't know whether what they are looking at is sufficient and meets the standard of being a prosecutable case.

Interesting to note one of the intelligence committees is now reporting Trump's conversations may have been intercepted as a contaminant during surveillance of (I'm guessing here) Stone, Mannafort and Flynn. And we don't know whether all 4 (the name of the fourth escapes me) or one of the 4, two of the four, etc. were the target of surveillance.

THIS is probably why Trump got up with a hangover one Saturday morning and started tweeting about his 'wires being tapped'. They were. Not directly, but indirectly, as if any one of those four were being surveilled, if any of them had called Trump and had a discussion with him, that call would have been taped.

Still, I would say that Mr. Trump is exhibiting many of the signs someone who is guilty reacts when under investigation. I dug the list out and am posting it here. He has about 5 of these pretty well covered.

http://www.fraud-magazine.com/article.aspx?id=4294971184

[Kung Wu]