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Originally posted by SHOCKvalue
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Hannah Arendt wasn't an obscure seventeenth century author. She was a German-born Jewish American political theorist. She escaped Europe during the Holocaust, and during WWII worked for Youth Aliyah, a Zionist organization, which saved thousands of children from the Holocaust. Your lack of knowledge is not proof of her obscurity, nor is it proof of anything but itself. Her work on totalitarianism is considered seminal, and the book I quoted from has been called one of the best non-fiction books of the century. Le Monde placed the book among the 100 best books of any kind of the 20th century, while the National Review ranked it #15 on its list of the 100 best non-fiction books of the century and the Intercollegiate Studies Institute listed it among the 50 best non-fiction books of the century.
Similarly, you piece together arguments with the same lack of knowledge or input. Why did I make long posts with lots of numbers? To outwork you. I put in the work to comprehensively describe why the numbers are insane, you put in no work to dismiss them. The burden of proof is not on me, as I have FAR surpassed that. It is on you. Want to prove that I am wrong about a 10,816,344,000 cubic feet wall of concrete costing $80B? You'll have to do better than an uncited quote with no figures.
The fact that you could not comprehend my arguments is not proof against them, it is proof against you. I don't think it is very hard to understand that:
* In 2006 the Secure Fence Act created 670 miles of single layer fencing for $2.4B
* In 2007, after 140 miles of fencing had been built, the Department of Homeland Security installed and maintained 512 miles of fencing for $5.9B
* These two figures account are for cheap, single layer fencing
* A concrete wall would cost between $2.67B and $80.1B in materials alone, far more than the cost of fencing
That should not be too many figures for any reasonable adult to keep track of. If you can't handle it, well again that is on you. Nor should the key point I've repeatedly stated be too complex: "A wall is unnecessary and more expensive than drones + personnel." Even those that think immigration is an unchecked menace should be aware that there are better solutions.
And if we want to talk about bad numbers, I'll admit I've been using some bad ones. For one, I've used the price of concrete at $93/cubic yard (and before, I messed up my units and put it at 93/cubic foot). But in reality, we aren't just using concrete. This isn't a concrete deck or slab, it is a wall. We need structural concrete, much more expensive. Here is a cost breakdown of the WSDOT Highway in Washington for an estimate of $725/cubic yard. I'd do more algebra but I fear that would scare you off for good. If you want, you can run the numbers for a 10,816,344,000 cubic foot (50ft) wall or a 360544800 cubic feet (25ft) wall.
And those are just a portion of the materials costs. This doesn't account for the 3% weight of steel added to the wall, or non-materials costs which are typically two to three times the material costs and might be even higher for the wall. Again, apparently math scares you off so I won't go through the process of confusing you any more with new numbers, but you can do the math yourself.
50ft wall:
10,816,344,000 cubic feet * (1 cubic yard/27 cubic feet) * $752/cubic yard structural concrete = cost of structural concrete
10,816,344,000 cubic feet*150 lbs/cubic foot*.03 (weight steel/weight concrete)*$1/lb steel = cost of steel
(cost of steel + cost of concrete) * 2 = non-materials costs
25ft wall:
360544800 cubic feet * (1 cubic yard/27 cubic feet) * $752/cubic yard structural concrete = cost of structural concrete
360544800 cubic feet*150 lbs/cubic foot*.03 (weight steel/weight concrete)*$1/lb steel = cost of steel
(cost of steel + cost of concrete) * 2 = non-materials costs
total = cost of steel + cost of concrete + non-materials costs
And if you want to play around with the math even more, replace the cubic feet with whatever volume you want:
5280 feet/mile * Miles of Wall * (Height + Depth underground) * Width.
So, comparisons:
* Border = $cost/mile (cost to fence 1299 miles)(cost to fence 1951 miles)
* Fencing (Secure Fence Act) = $3.5M/mile ($4.55B)($6.83B)
* Fencing (revised Homeland Security estimate (low end)) = $9M/mile ($11.7B)($17.6B)
* Fencing (revised Homeland Security estimate (high end)) = $11.5M/mile ($14.9B)($22.4B)
* 25' height + 10' underground, 1' width concrete wall = $17.9M/mile ($23.3B)($34.9B)
* 35' height + 15' underground, 2' width concrete wall = $51.2M / mile ($66.5B)($129B)
* 50' height + 15' underground, 2' width concrete wall = $66.6M/mile ($86.5B)($169B)
* 50' height + 15' underground, 10' width concrete wall = $333M/mile ($433B)($650B)
If you have a problem with those numbers, prove them wrong by either:
* Showing that the price of structural concrete would be lower than $752/cubic yard
* Showing that the weight of steel would be less than 3% of the weight of concrete
* Showing that the cost of steel would be less than $1/lb
* Showing that the non-materials costs would be less than twice the materials costs
* Showing that the height/width/thickness would be different than described
* Showing that the math is incorrect
* Showing that less miles would need to be walled off (1951 for full border, 1299 for that not covered by current fencing)
You can't simply say "he's using too many different numbers!" again, because that argument only speaks to your inability, not the work itself. It is just simple math at this point to show the wall is tremendously more expensive than the Congressional estimates.
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