PARIS

[insaneykaney]

We will be in once we have a catastrophe of our own. I guess we're just gonna wait till every country including ours gets hit to finally do something.

Terrorism is such a crazy topic. It used to be that you identify your enemy, defeat them and take their territory or whatever it was that you wanted.
Now, with terrorism, there is no enemy to even fight. You just have to let them hit you over and over again and listen to people debate about how not to deal with it. Dealing with it means the potential for tons of collateral damage on YOUR hands. Not defeating it means tons (probably more) of prolonged collateral damage on their hands. Either way, innocent people will probably be sacrificed.

So I guess we've decided that the ability to say we didn't physically cause the collateral damage is more important than trying to protect as many people as possible from evil. Or the ability to say we didn't call anyone out or judge anyone's beliefs is more important than the people who will die.

At some point you have to call something what it is and deal with it. I have no idea how off the top of my head but after what just happened, a little shock and awe sure feels like a nice idea.

Maybe I'm all wrong, but let me just be angry and say what I want right now...

You don't sound wrong at all.

[shocka khan]

Rlh04d presents a very effective case as to why we need to try to limit collateral damage. In the Muslim religion, wrongs are avenged. When we kill innocents, we drive their family members right into the arms of ISIS, especially if they're Sunnis.

At the end of the day, we need to try to limit collateral damage as much as possible, but with what's going on now, only a fool would want to live next to an ISIS asset. If they haven't figured out we're coming for them, they better wake up quick. If I were in Raqqa and I could get the hell out, I would. Your life is not worth staying there while they carpet bomb the area.

[CBB_Fan]

I think every single hawk here misunderstands ISIS. ISIS doesn't care about America. ISIS doesn't care about France. They don't give a **** about the Western world.

ISIS believes that now is the time of Armageddon, and that they are destined to lead the true Muslims to victory over the heretics. Their goal isn't to make the West afraid. Their goal is to create a caliphate, a government ruled by a spiritual successor of the Islamic prophets. They aren't just a bunch of crazy Arabic men of fighting age; they are backed by old and wealthy religious nuts that truly believe what they are preaching. They believe that Armageddon will happen in Syria, after their defeat of the army of "Rome" at Dabiq starts the countdown. They believe that in order to win the final battle they need to purify Islam and bring it under their control.

The reason they attack Western countries is to provoke anger towards Muslims. What they want is war, war between the heretics and the true believers. They want Muslims driven out of the West and into their waiting arms so that they can radicalize them. They want Muslims in the west to be ostracized so that their agents can get to them and turn them against their country. They want constant warfare in the Middle East so that they can wipe out the false Muslims and topple Western-backed governments.

Basically, what I'm saying is that ISIS has been totally and completely successful at achieving their goals, as you can see by this thread alone. All emotional talk about manning up and fighting, anger towards Muslims, fear of getting attacked. This is exactly what they want. They want people in Wichita, Kansas to think they are at risk of getting attacked by Islamic terrorists. The truth is, I am a million times more likely to be struck be a car tomorrow than to ever be a victim of a terrorist attack. Terrorism is simply not a large-scale threat to this country.

We shouldn't send even a single soldier to fight ISIS on the ground. Not even one. As far as I'm concerned, the life of a single American is worth more than the entire ISIS caliphate. Instead, we should simply and cleanly fight an unfair war from the air. Wipe out every structure in ISIS territory, blow up every vehicle that tries to leave. Give law enforcement officers search warrants for everyone suspected by our hundred-billion dollar spy network of being a radical Islamist. Most importantly, we should seek the support and help of our countries Muslims, and of Muslims abroad. We should get Saudi Arabia to fight ISIS. Iran. We should enlist the help of every mosque in this country and in the EU.

If we let this become a ground war, ISIS wins. If we let fear rule us, ISIS wins. If we allow our emotional response to the tragedy turn us against the Muslims in our communities, ISIS wins. If we do nothing at all, ISIS wins. We only win if we fully commit ourselves to dismantling their caliphate without letting fear or hatred turn this into war between Muslims and the rest of the world.

[wufan]

I think every single hawk here misunderstands ISIS. ISIS doesn't care about America. ISIS doesn't care about France. They don't give a **** about the Western world.

ISIS believes that now is the time of Armageddon, and that they are destined to lead the true Muslims to victory over the heretics. Their goal isn't to make the West afraid. Their goal is to create a caliphate, a government ruled by a spiritual successor of the Islamic prophets. They aren't just a bunch of crazy Arabic men of fighting age; they are backed by old and wealthy religious nuts that truly believe what they are preaching. They believe that Armageddon will happen in Syria, after their defeat of the army of "Rome" at Dabiq starts the countdown. They believe that in order to win the final battle they need to purify Islam and bring it under their control.

The reason they attack Western countries is to provoke anger towards Muslims. What they want is war, war between the heretics and the true believers. They want Muslims driven out of the West and into their waiting arms so that they can radicalize them. They want Muslims in the west to be ostracized so that their agents can get to them and turn them against their country. They want constant warfare in the Middle East so that they can wipe out the false Muslims and topple Western-backed governments.

Basically, what I'm saying is that ISIS has been totally and completely successful at achieving their goals, as you can see by this thread alone. All emotional talk about manning up and fighting, anger towards Muslims, fear of getting attacked. This is exactly what they want. They want people in Wichita, Kansas to think they are at risk of getting attacked by Islamic terrorists. The truth is, I am a million times more likely to be struck be a car tomorrow than to ever be a victim of a terrorist attack. Terrorism is simply not a large-scale threat to this country.

We shouldn't send even a single soldier to fight ISIS on the ground. Not even one. As far as I'm concerned, the life of a single American is worth more than the entire ISIS caliphate. Instead, we should simply and cleanly fight an unfair war from the air. Wipe out every structure in ISIS territory, blow up every vehicle that tries to leave. Give law enforcement officers search warrants for everyone suspected by our hundred-billion dollar spy network of being a radical Islamist. Most importantly, we should seek the support and help of our countries Muslims, and of Muslims abroad. We should get Saudi Arabia to fight ISIS. Iran. We should enlist the help of every mosque in this country and in the EU.

If we let this become a ground war, ISIS wins. If we let fear rule us, ISIS wins. If we allow our emotional response to the tragedy turn us against the Muslims in our communities, ISIS wins. If we do nothing at all, ISIS wins. We only win if we fully commit ourselves to dismantling their caliphate without letting fear or hatred turn this into war between Muslims and the rest of the world.

Well said.

[SB Shock]

You guys don't get it - this is not about religion - it is about climate change and lack of economic opportunity. These people only lashing out because it hotter, and they can't even get a minimum wage job. They only feel like "black lives matter" and that the world is not recognizing their lives matter also.

As PLANNED PARENTHOOD so elequently said yesterday - "every child deserves the opportunity to live up to their God given potential".

So Obama (and Hillary when elected) should take immediately action (executive action when necessary) do the following:

1. Outlaw fracking, that will end the earthquak issue, but also will stop the stealing of job from the Middle East.

2. Declare our country carbon neutral. Sure there will be economic cost, probably a recession, maybe a depression but even the poor here are better off than those in the Middle East.

3. Immediate stop of all drone and/or airstrikes. We can't have goodwill if we are bombing people.

4. Withdrawal all troops from the Middle East and southwest Asia. Let not be mistaken for crusaders.

5. Immediate tax increase on the rich, with the proceeds being sent to Syria, Iraq, Iran to provide economic opportunity.

6. Open our borders like Europe and show we are inclusive and tolerant society.

7. Ask the department of education to develop a multi-faceted education program that can be implemented by 2016 that all schools will be required to teach about Islam. The political, educational, and religious aspects of Islam are not truly understood by American and there're what we don't understand creates fear. So let's start educating kids now. Make the Koran a required reading.

8. Develop public information advertisement that will be run to educate the adult population.

9. By executive order implement universal background check. Ban any magazine that holds more than 3 rounds. We all know that after 3 rounds your accuracy goes down.

10. Outlaw all public displays of the Christian holiday - Christmas. This is offensive to the mom Christians and pagans. They can celebrate in the privacy of their own homes.

11. No more 9-11 memorials - this can make Muslim in our country feel uncomfortable and this constant yearly reminder can be troubling for them.

12. Immediately allow those Muslim communities to implement sharia law as they see fit.

[pinstripers]

Frankly, there are many who would applaud this. Seriously.

[RoyalShock]

I think every single hawk here misunderstands ISIS. ISIS doesn't care about America. ISIS doesn't care about France. They don't give a **** about the Western world.

ISIS believes that now is the time of Armageddon, and that they are destined to lead the true Muslims to victory over the heretics. Their goal isn't to make the West afraid. Their goal is to create a caliphate, a government ruled by a spiritual successor of the Islamic prophets. They aren't just a bunch of crazy Arabic men of fighting age; they are backed by old and wealthy religious nuts that truly believe what they are preaching. They believe that Armageddon will happen in Syria, after their defeat of the army of "Rome" at Dabiq starts the countdown. They believe that in order to win the final battle they need to purify Islam and bring it under their control.

The reason they attack Western countries is to provoke anger towards Muslims. What they want is war, war between the heretics and the true believers. They want Muslims driven out of the West and into their waiting arms so that they can radicalize them. They want Muslims in the west to be ostracized so that their agents can get to them and turn them against their country. They want constant warfare in the Middle East so that they can wipe out the false Muslims and topple Western-backed governments.

Basically, what I'm saying is that ISIS has been totally and completely successful at achieving their goals, as you can see by this thread alone. All emotional talk about manning up and fighting, anger towards Muslims, fear of getting attacked. This is exactly what they want. They want people in Wichita, Kansas to think they are at risk of getting attacked by Islamic terrorists. The truth is, I am a million times more likely to be struck be a car tomorrow than to ever be a victim of a terrorist attack. Terrorism is simply not a large-scale threat to this country.

We shouldn't send even a single soldier to fight ISIS on the ground. Not even one. As far as I'm concerned, the life of a single American is worth more than the entire ISIS caliphate. Instead, we should simply and cleanly fight an unfair war from the air. Wipe out every structure in ISIS territory, blow up every vehicle that tries to leave. Give law enforcement officers search warrants for everyone suspected by our hundred-billion dollar spy network of being a radical Islamist. Most importantly, we should seek the support and help of our countries Muslims, and of Muslims abroad. We should get Saudi Arabia to fight ISIS. Iran. We should enlist the help of every mosque in this country and in the EU.

If we let this become a ground war, ISIS wins. If we let fear rule us, ISIS wins. If we allow our emotional response to the tragedy turn us against the Muslims in our communities, ISIS wins. If we do nothing at all, ISIS wins. We only win if we fully commit ourselves to dismantling their caliphate without letting fear or hatred turn this into war between Muslims and the rest of the world.

I came over to this topic right after posting a new one with a link that goes into great detail explaining this. Good timing!

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

You guys don't get it - this is not about religion - it is about climate change and lack of economic opportunity. These people only lashing out because it hotter, and they can't even get a minimum wage job. They only feel like "black lives matter" and that the world is not recognizing their lives matter also.

As PLANNED PARENTHOOD so elequently said yesterday - "every child deserves the opportunity to live up to their God given potential".

So Obama (and Hillary when elected) should take immediately action (executive action when necessary) do the following:

1. Outlaw fracking, that will end the earthquak issue, but also will stop the stealing of job from the Middle East.

2. Declare our country carbon neutral. Sure there will be economic cost, probably a recession, maybe a depression but even the poor here are better off than those in the Middle East.

3. Immediate stop of all drone and/or airstrikes. We can't have goodwill if we are bombing people.

4. Withdrawal all troops from the Middle East and southwest Asia. Let not be mistaken for crusaders.

5. Immediate tax increase on the rich, with the proceeds being sent to Syria, Iraq, Iran to provide economic opportunity.

6. Open our borders like Europe and show we are inclusive and tolerant society.

7. Ask the department of education to develop a multi-faceted education program that can be implemented by 2016 that all schools will be required to teach about Islam. The political, educational, and religious aspects of Islam are not truly understood by American and there're what we don't understand creates fear. So let's start educating kids now. Make the Koran a required reading.

8. Develop public information advertisement that will be run to educate the adult population.

9. By executive order implement universal background check. Ban any magazine that holds more than 3 rounds. We all know that after 3 rounds your accuracy goes down.

10. Outlaw all public displays of the Christian holiday - Christmas. This is offensive to the mom Christians and pagans. They can celebrate in the privacy of their own homes.

11. No more 9-11 memorials - this can make Muslim in our country feel uncomfortable and this constant yearly reminder can be troubling for them.

12. Immediately allow those Muslim communities to implement sharia law as they see fit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/business/dealbook/in-religious-arbitration-scripture-is-the-rule-of-law.html?_r=1

[Kung Wu]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/bu...-law.html?_r=1

Hahaha

I'm on the other end of the political spectrum from you and @BOBB:, but you two always crack me up. Especially in game threads. LOL

[Awesome Sauce Malone]

Hahaha

I'm on the other end of the political spectrum from you and @BOBB:, but you two always crack me up. Especially in game threads. LOL

I lean pretty left on alot of issues. i willfully agree. I feel I'm more in the middle than anything. But with that said, @CBB_Fan: has the most sensible post in here and this is the same dude who said he wont even watch MLB due to amount of Dominicans in the league.

Ill try and post more in the game threads :cowbell:

[RoyalShock]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/bu...-law.html?_r=1

This reminds me of a phrase I've been wanting to use to describe a certain unnamed poster in the basketball forum . . . "The Minnie Pearl of tinfoil hats". To be clear, I'm NOT applying that to SB Shock.

[Kung Wu]

[pogo]

This reminds me of a phrase I've been wanting to use to describe a certain unnamed poster in the basketball forum . . . "The Minnie Pearl of tinfoil hats". To be clear, I'm NOT applying that to SB Shock.

Have you ever tried to bell a cat or wrestle a pig in the mud? One hates the prospect and the other relishes the prospect but the end result is the same...its not a lot of fun for you.

[RoyalShock]

Have you ever tried to bell a cat or wrestle a pig in the mud? One hates the prospect and the other relishes the prospect but the end result is the same...its not a lot of fun for you.

Which is why I've refrained from using it. For the record I hope you're not thinking I was referring to you. Definitely not you. No chance. Nope, not even close.

Fortunately, I'm not a cat person. The other metaphor is commonly phrased, "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig likes it." Didn't ISASO used to have that as his signature here or on MVCFans/ValleyTalk? Or am I thinking of someone else?

[ShockTalk]

Which is why I've refrained from using it. For the record I hope you're not thinking I was referring to you. Definitely not you. No chance. Nope, not even close.

Fortunately, I'm not a cat person. The other metaphor is commonly phrased, "Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty but the pig likes it." Didn't ISASO used to have that as his signature here or on MVCFans/ValleyTalk? Or am I thinking of someone else?

There's somebody who hasn't posted recently.