Free Market Health Insurance

[shocka khan]

Where did a subsidized $480 /mo. with no deductible come from? The cost mentioned, as I have said in 2 previous posts is an UNSUBSIDIZED figure. That is a quote for my wife, so the part about "plus an exorbitant amount for your wife" makes no sense whatsoever. Do you even read opinions that differ from yours?

I pick the $750 a year. Where can I choose that option? Also, who's subsidizing that, since that's not going to cover more than about 2 doctor's visits if tests are ordered.

I notice you've left out a big change in medical care in the last 50 or 60 years. Hospitals have gone from pretty much charitable organizations largely sponsored by churches to for-profit corporations, where a significant profit is more important than it was in the pre-1960's medical model.

Are you proposing getting rid of Medicare?

If you'll look at the poster and the 'likes' on the post, you'll find the same group of people who live in a fact-free world.

And yes, they DO propose getting rid of Medicare, the whole lot of them. It's your fault you got sick, they don't believe in a social safety net. They aren't really wealthy (but they think they are). If they were wealthy, they would be out making more money or tending to their investments, instead of hanging out on this blog and castigating you for your unfortunate circumstances.

[shocka khan]

By the way, Aargh, I'm really glad you're here. You have overcome some substantial obsticalse in your life and have shown character and grace some of our fellow posters could never have. You have insight and a sense of collegiality that a number of people on this board sorely lack.

Best of luck to you and I hope you can find affordable insurance. I think I'm close to your age - too young for medicare and too old to buy health insurance on the private market. I'm lucky enough to be relatively healthy and have good health insurance.

[Kung Wu]

Where did a subsidized $480 /mo. with no deductible come from? The cost mentioned, as I have said in 2 previous posts is an UNSUBSIDIZED figure. That is a quote for my wife, so the part about "plus an exorbitant amount for your wife" makes no sense whatoever. Do you even read opinions that differ from yours?

I pick the $750 a year. Where can I choose that option? Also, who's subsidizing that, since that's not going to cover more than about 2 doctor's visits if thospitalsordered.

I notice you've left out a big change in medical care in the last 50 or 60 years. Hospitals have gone from pretty much charitable organizations largely sponsored by churches to for-profit corporations, where a significant profit is more important than it was in the pre-1960's medical model.

Are you proposing getting rid of Medicare?

No need to get snotty. I have been on the road all day, so no, I did not have the ability to read about 10 posts before submitting mine. I cannot refresh my screen with a half typed in post -- just the nature of posting from a phone. And you have to admit that was a pretty impressive beast of a post for a mobile phone, eh?

The first mention of being unsubsidized appeared to mean only your wife's insurance is unsubsidized. I missed that you were on private insurance for your 480 premium. I thought that you were on Obama and/or Medicare and/or Medicaid. So because of Obamacare and the preexisting conditions clause you are able to get private insurance. Is that correct?

[Kung Wu]

If you'll look at the poster and the 'likes' on the post, you'll find the same group of people who live in a fact-free world.

And yes, they DO propose getting rid of Medicare, the whole lot of them. It's your fault you got sick, they don't believe in a social safety net. They aren't really wealthy (but they think they are). If they were wealthy, they would be out making more money or tending to their investments, instead of hanging out on this blog and castigating you for your unfortunate circumstances.

Completely stewed in wrong sauce on so many levels. But no time. Wl be happy to share later.

[Dave Stalwart]

If "likes" and "thanks" mean there is a group of people that think something together, what does it mean when there are posts without any "likes" and "thanks?"

[shocka khan]

Quick, hurry and call all your friends, because I'm telling you the same thing you would me, 'not much'.

But I like Aargh and I think there's a sentiment that somehow his medical problems are his fault.

I have a right to my opinion and I feel compassion for his situation. I could have been in his shoes.

So do you feel the same way as I do? Here's your chance to turn this around and do something positive.

Or you can choose to say nothing and continue to show your behind.

[CBB_Fan]

The problem is that free market healthcare doesn't even come close to existing in the US, and not just because of government controls. The very definition of a free market is:

free mar·ket (noun) - an economic system in which prices are determined by unrestricted competition between privately owned businesses

The US system fundamentally differs from that in several key ways. First, we pay for insurance instead of the actual product itself (healthcare). Second, most Americans get insurance from their employer, eliminating choice. Third, the insurance companies are state restricted, with few options in each state. Finally, and most importantly of all the price of healthcare itself IS ARBITRARY. Healthcare providers set a number, largely at random, and then insurance companies haggle that number down.

Even if the US Government completely and totally removed itself from the equation, the fundamental make-up of our healthcare system is not that of a free-market economy. It isn't socialism either. Instead it is an overly complex system with few choices, little competition, and high prices. Free market healthcare works just fine. Switzerland spends just 2.7% of its GDP on healthcare by using a system that allows individuals to choose from between 100+ companies, but requires at least a basic insurance plan that follows federal guidelines (similar to how state auto insurance works in the US). The only federal expenditure is that they cover expenditures past 10% of an individual's yearly income for the basic plan. Socialism also works just fine, just that is another topic.

I don't think Obamacare is a perfect, or even good solution. But it is probably better than the previous solution, and a better solution than Republican alternatives. However, Republicans are right that at a basic level simply subsidizing something doesn't work. Our approach to education in particular showcases this. We freely give out loans to college students, but the loans are what allows universities to set sky high prices. In essence, we simply forces more debt on students for little gain. Blindly subsidizing insurance or healthcare will have the same result.

Basically, I think Obamacare has done a small amount of good but the healthcare system is flawed at its core. We could have a working free-market system but we are impeded by both government and corporate influences. Ignoring one or the other won't solve the problem, and denying the problem is just making it spiral out of control. We could also shift to a single-payer system, but politically speaking America isn't ready for it yet and may never be. We are still profoundly antagonistic towards the mere mention of socialism because of the red scare.

[MoValley John]

This whole topic is too complicated to discuss. That said, we really should just throw up our hands, switch to single payer and be done with it. That is where we are going anyway.

[wu_shizzle]

This whole topic is too complicated to discuss. That said, we really should just throw up our hands, switch to single payer and be done with it. That is where we are going anyway.

Planned Obsolescence was always the goal.

[SB Shock]

We are all going do die regardless of how good of health insurance we do or don't have.

[MoValley John]

Planned Obsolescence was always the goal.

Yup.

[Kung Wu]

I pick the $750 a year. Where can I choose that option?

Great, put pressure on your congressman to drop price controls and back out of interfering with healthcare.

Also, who's subsidizing that, since that's not going to cover more than about 2 doctor's visits if tests are ordered.

Two doctor visits with tests didn't have to cost this much.

I notice you've left out a big change in medical care in the last 50 or 60 years. Hospitals have gone from pretty much charitable organizations largely sponsored by churches to for-profit corporations, where a significant profit is more important than it was in the pre-1960's medical model.

Alas. Not-for-profit hospitals exist for the purpose of bringing needy people the highest quality of healthcare that their budgets will allow. For profit hospitals charge a premium for their services. You'd think poor people would migrate to the lower cost alternative -- so why aren't they? Could it be the obvious answer that we have subsidized 16% our population and implemented price controls on private hospitals -- making the much more expensive alternative to not-for-profit hospitals too available (i.e. overuse/abuse)?

Could it be that Medicare/id is the CAUSE and the decline of the readily available not-for-profit hospital is the EFFECT?

Are you proposing getting rid of Medicare?

Yes, it needs to be phased out for a model that is sustainable. I will rough out a model of what that looks like in a future post.

[MoValley John]

Give it up, Kung Wu. Medicare was, is and always will be the problem. And it isn't going away. Obamacare will follow in the footsteps of medicare. The best thing we can do is give up and switch to single payer as soon as possible.

What people don't and will never understand is that our current medical system is designed around medicare. Medicare makes rules and the entire medical infrastructure adapts to comply with medicare. From fee for service, to pricing, to billing is all geared toward medicare compliance. Staffing is a function of medicare, as is accreditation. Medicare is how every management decision is based in a hospital. People get upset about spiraling prices, so a blue ribbon commission is formed to get to the bottom of the situation. The panel of experts always come back to the same causes of escalating prices, but they never get to the root, that those practices and procedures were put in place to comply with medicare. From the janitor to the surgeon, they are all governed by medicare.

So, we know that Obama and Pelosi invented the affordable care act to win in the short term and lose long term. It is intended as a step toward single payer. Since its in place and not going anywhere, let's skip the drama and move to single payer now.

[Kung Wu]

Give it up, Kung Wu. Medicare was, is and always will be the problem. And it isn't going away. Obamacare will follow in the footsteps of medicare. The best thing we can do is give up and switch to single payer as soon as possible.

What people don't and will never understand is that our current medical system is designed around medicare. Medicare makes rules and the entire medical infrastructure adapts to comply with medicare. From fee for service, to pricing, to billing is all geared toward medicare compliance. Staffing is a function of medicare, as is accreditation. Medicare is how every management decision is based in a hospital. People get upset about spiraling prices, so a blue ribbon commission is formed to get to the bottom of the situation. The panel of experts always come back to the same causes of escalating prices, but they never get to the root, that those practices and procedures were put in place to comply with medicare. From the janitor to the surgeon, they are all governed by medicare.

So, we know that Obama and Pelosi invented the affordable care act to win in the short term and lose long term. It is intended as a step toward single payer. Since its in place and not going anywhere, let's skip the drama and move to single payer now.

Never give up! I will be touting KungWuCare here soon!

[kcshocker11]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2014/10/31/key-study-on-obamacare-2015-premium-rates-is-out-and-you-wont-believe-whats-going-to-happen/2/