Schoolbus Beating

[pinstripers]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/05/justice/florida-school-bus-beating

[SB Shock]

tough situation. If he intervenes he become potentially liable if he hurts the kids. If he intervenes against school policy he can lose his job. Then you have the ruling by a judge in a similiar situation in brooklyn that the police have no duty to protect an individual. This country is kind of f----d.

[SubGod22]

As you said, people have been fired or even charged when helping in a situation like this, so I really don't care that he didn't jump in. At least he made the call and was quick to try and get help.

[kcshocker11]

Seriously, I know what I would have done. I see someone being beat to a pulp, possibly a severe injury or death. I'm not thinking ,gee its against policy or I'll lose my job (I doubt that would enter my mind), I'm going to do what I can to stop it (yes at personal risk to my own health). Oh society is to blame for this, I think not.

[SubGod22]

I'm not saying I'd make the same decision, but I'm not going to beat the guy for it. Hell, as a basketball official we're explicity told not to get involved if there's any sort of fight on the court. Don't grab or pull anyone off of another. Don't get inbetween players if things have gone that far. Too many liability issues and refs have been sued in the past for doing things to stop a fight. It's always difficult when there are minors involved. In that regard, society is to blame. Juries find people like him guilty because he "assaulted" a minor when all he would do is grab the kid and pull him off of another.

People trying to throw this guy under the bus amaze me as some of them would be criticizing him if he'd gotten involved and one of the three guys who were doing the beating got a bruise on his arm as a result.

[pinstripers]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/08/07/florida-school-bus-beatdown-goes-unnoticed-by-self-styled-civil-rights/

then there is this angle that CNN did not even mention

[kcshocker11]

I'm not saying I'd make the same decision, but I'm not going to beat the guy for it. Hell, as a basketball official we're explicity told not to get involved if there's any sort of fight on the court. Don't grab or pull anyone off of another. Don't get inbetween players if things have gone that far. Too many liability issues and refs have been sued in the past for doing things to stop a fight. It's always difficult when there are minors involved. In that regard, society is to blame. Juries find people like him guilty because he "assaulted" a minor when all he would do is grab the kid and pull him off of another.

People trying to throw this guy under the bus amaze me as some of them would be criticizing him if he'd gotten involved and one of the three guys who were doing the beating got a bruise on his arm as a result.

Sorry Sub but I'm calling BS on that. That kid could have been killed.

[SB Shock]

Seriously, I know what I would have done. I see someone being beat to a pulp, possibly a severe injury or death. I'm not thinking ,gee its against policy or I'll lose my job (I doubt that would enter my mind), I'm going to do what I can to stop it (yes at personal risk to my own health). Oh society is to blame for this, I think not.

It comes down to this - if it is worth going to jail and/or being broke due to criminal/civil lawsuits that are sure to follow then go ahead. The courts are ruling that u have to use proportional force. So in this situation pepper spray might be a good choice - except courts have actually ruled it is a potential deadly weapon - and if one of the kids die u might be charged at least manslaughter. Now the one thing he does have going for him if he intervened is there was a camera - but how many buses have cameras installed?

[pinstripers]

Don't ban me for this, but I cannot imagine that CNN or the others (on the heels of the Trayvon matter)did not mention that this was black on white crime.

[SubGod22]

From what I've read though, I'm not sure race should be a major issue in this one. I'm going off of memory, but it sounded like the beating was because the white kid snitched on one of the black kids. However, with how the media played up the race issue that didn't exist with Martin/Zimmerman......

[SB Shock]

Don't ban me for this, but I cannot imagine that CNN or the others (on the heels of the Trayvon matter)did not mention that this was black on white crime.

I didn't even notice that. Had the roles been reversed and it had been a white bus driver Sharpton wouild have been on TV demanding the bus driver be prosecuted for violating the civil right of the kid beaten by not intervene.

[60Shock]

This type of crap has been going on for years and the Language thread falls into this category as well. Once the lawyers made their mark and virtually gained control (roughly 43% of our Senators and Congreessmen are lawyers) of this country and the government, we lost it.

Since when should coming to someone's aide result in a law suit?

Since when should someone sue and win (infamous McDonald's case) for burning their tongue on a hot cup of coffee? Maybe only if you ordered Iced Coffee?

Since when should a women trip on a piece of glass from a bottle her son shattered in a grocery store sue and win?

Since when should a doctor or a dentist not be able to stop at a road side accident and try and save someone's life without the fear of being sued if the individual dies.

You don't think we have too many attorneys in this country. Take a look at the Wichilta Yellow pages, or your home town Yellow pages and count the number of pages listed for Attorneys. I just counted them here in Daytona Beach and we had 84 pages of them.

[ShockTalk]

As long as juries have no idea that most of the unjustifiably exorbitant or misguided pay outs they award eventually come from their own pocket, this will continue.

[WuDrWu]

@60Shock: has it right about the lawyers. Just look at the incident again.

A 60 year old bus driver...a 60 year old bus driver.....has to quit because of the nightmares he has about the beatings. 30 years ago he whips these thugs collective asses. Today....he's worried about losing his job. The lawyers and courts, just like our public schools, are catering to the least common denominator. And not just the LCD, the most obscure situations. Common sense is out the window...everyday thinking isn't practiced. We concern ourselves with how the taxation and media attention affects us if we win the Powerball. It's freaking insane.

It's not about going backwards...it's about common sense prevailing over the occasional one off. Liberals have now defined non common sense as progress....and people are lapping it up for fear of being labeled old. Please kill me now.

Like our Federal fiscal cliff, I personally fear we may be way too far gone to fix it. I don't know...maybe there are enough normal people around to change things, but I doubt it.

As Dennis Miller once said, quoting Shakespeare, kill all the lawyers.....I think we can get away with it because at the trial we can claim improper representation.

[Kung Wu]

It comes down to this - if it is worth going to jail and/or being broke due to criminal/civil lawsuits that are sure to follow then go ahead. The courts are ruling that u have to use proportional force. So in this situation pepper spray might be a good choice - except courts have actually ruled it is a potential deadly weapon - and if one of the kids die might be charged at least manslaughter. Now the one thing he does have going for him if he intervened is there was a camera - but how many buses have cameras installed?

You don't have to use proportional force when defending your own or somebody else's life. The disparity of force argument is used against the attacker. If you are genuinely defending your own life or someone else's you can use any means necessary. Also 3 older kids on 1 younger kid is a disparity of force (according to many court cases) and the victim or a defender could have justifiably used a weapon in defense -- if they truly believed the victim's life was threatened.

But an over eager district attorney would still prosecute and you can never predict a jury.