Ryan vs Biden

[1979Shocker]

I think the reason the two polls were so different was because the CBS poll was only of undecided voters, while the CNN poll was asked of anyone who watched the debate.

[1979Shocker]

It looks like Ryan won the poll on who reached for the glass of water the most.

[MoValley John]

I honestly turned the thing off. From what I can tell, it was a split depending on whom you read.

Then again, it was a VP debate, so I'm not sure it matters. Well, a standing VP can only lose these things, so Biden has to be happy.

[Capitol Shock II]

I think Biden pushed Ryan around. I don't think that he was better on substance but I thought he made Ryan look a little weak. I kept wishing Ryan would have said something like, "I disturbed that you think all of these problems your administration has created is funny. I doubt the 23 million looking for work right now are laughing.

[Kung Wu]

From where I sit it was close. Biden came off as being a seasoned politician -- which is exactly what he is. Ryan came off as being a younger and more energetic "fix the broken system" type guy -- which is exactly what he is. So they both accomplished what they needed to.

If you want an experienced politician you'll say Biden won.

If you want someone with fresh ideas to fix the system you'll say Ryan won.

I agree with @MoValley John: that this debate, being a wash and VP doesn't change anything from an independent voter stand point but only serves to shore up each party's base slightly.

[SB Shock]

My take:

Biden said their plan is to continue their agenda and they have made the right choices. When things have gone bad it was George bushes fault, or the intelligence community, or ..... If u like their agenda then u will think Biden won.

Ryan/Romney plan is to be pro-business. They are going to focus on making policy that will lead into that direction. If u agree with Ryan or don't like the Obama path then u will think Ryan won.

Most people did not watch the debate - so they will get the post debate take - which is not about agendas or plans but that Biden was grumpy, unprofessional, and tried to intimidate. Which is probably not the story the democrats were wishing for.

[Capitol Shock II]

I watched a focus group interview with Luntz and it was sickening how many people said that Biden did a great job. I will be the first to admit that I have a bias but to me, Biden's behavior was totally unbecoming of somebody that is supposed to be the Vice President? Second highest position in the Executive branch and you interupt a total of 80 times, consistently laugh and smirk during the conversation?

I think that the office has been totally diminished over the years and if one of my employees ever acted like this it may very well be their last day on the job.

[pinstripers]

His behavior had to be according to their plan, but I fail to see how anybody thought that would help their cause.

[WstateU]

His behavior had to be according to their plan, but I fail to see how anybody thought that would help their cause.

"When a wise man debates with a fool, the fool rages and laughs and there is no peace."
Proverbs 29:9

[moshock]

The last time I wanted to punch someone so badly was at the WSU v IlSt game in St Louis last year.

I was embarassed that the man who is a heartbeat away from the most powerful position in the world is acting like a rude -arrogant - pompus a-hole. Whether or not his words had any substance - I cannot imagine that anyone on the Democrat's side could be proud of the way he acted.

[MoValley John]

At what point can we call Biden a liar and how many lies does it take before partisan Democrats lose their blind trust?

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politics/vp-debate/index.html?c=homepage-t

[pinstripers]

1. Soon
2. 10, 000

[60Shock]

At what point can we call Biden a liar and how many lies does it take before partisan Democrats lose their blind trust?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politi...l?c=homepage-t

The answer to your first question "anytime" and to the second is "never."


A rather non-violent female friend of the family had what I consider the best comment I have heard reference the VP debate when she stated, "I wish Ryan would have reached out and ***** slapped the smiling hyena across the side of his face."

[im4wsu]

Romney paid 14% tax- true BUTThe Democratic claim that Romney's paid less (14%) than

The Democratic claim that Romney's paid less (14%) than a $50,000 income is TOTAL B.S. Based on 2011 tax rates and standard deductions, here are the facts:

Filing single: $50,000 - 5,800 - 3,700 = 40,500 , $6,256 tax (12.5%)
Filing Married: $50,000 - 11,600- 7,400 = 31,000, $3,804 tax (6.6%)

Each is less than the Romney 14.4% paid in 2011.

If you removed the $2,250,772 charitable contribution from the Romney's tax return, they would have had taxable income of $11,258,551 and a resulting tax of $3,910,364 (28.54%).

To have numbers that would support the Democrats assertion, one would have to have a single individual earn $50,000 and not take the deduction or exemption, thereby paying tax on $50,000, which according to the tax table would be $8,631. This would be 17.26%.

However, this is same tax that would be paid by a single person earning $59,500 and taking the standard deduction and exemption, resulting in taxable income of $50,000. In this case, the REAL facts, the result is 14.5%.

Since the Romneys file as married, the apples-to-apples comparison would be $50,000 without taking exemptions, 13.3%; taxable of $50,000 after claiming exemptions would equate to $69,000 of income, and a 9.6% tax rate.

[Ixiah]

The Democratic claim that Romney's paid less (14%) than a $50,000 income is TOTAL B.S. Based on 2011 tax rates and standard deductions, here are the facts:

Filing single: $50,000 - 5,800 - 3,700 = 40,500 , $6,256 tax (12.5%)
Filing Married: $50,000 - 11,600- 7,400 = 31,000, $3,804 tax (6.6%)

Each is less than the Romney 14.4% paid in 2011.

I am no fan of Obama but the claim could well be valid (depending on how it was worded). A self employed individual (such as a sole proprietor) would have to pay all of their self employment tax to the tune of 13.3% in addition to the normal income tax.


You get get a calculation like this:

$ 50,000 < === SE income
x .9235
----------
$ 46,175 < === Income subject to SE tax
x .133
----------
$ 6,141 < === Tax on SE income
========

So your married filing joint return would be

$ 50,000
- 3,070 < === deduction for 1/2 of SE tax paid
- 11,600 < === standard deduction
- 7,400 < === exemptions
-------------------
$ 27,930 < === Taxable income
* Table for tax *
-------------------
$ 3,339 Tax
===============

$ 3,339 Tax
+ 6,141 SE Tax
---------------
$ 9,480 Total tax on the income
÷ 50,000
--------------------------
18.96% which is higher then Romney's
=============