Vote for Obama

[SubGod22]

Increasing the debt ceiling did change our credit rating with one of the services did it not? Continuing to raise it and refusing to dial back spending is absurd and insane. But that's what the Dems and Obama want to do.

The Republicans have screwed up plenty. But the Dems haven't done any better. They had two years with pretty much complete power and passed nothing substantial. Other than throwing money out there as a stimulus that was a waste of time and money and pushing through Obamacare. Neither of which is/was good for the country. I haven't followed stuff as closely as I once did because both parties are full of crap anymore. But the Republicans blocking some of the crap that the Dems have wanted has been a good thing. You can call it a jobs bill all day long, but if it's just throwing more money out there that's not going to solve anything and it should be blocked.

A lot of the new Republican members of Congress are very fiscally conservative and won't get behind bills that carelessly throw money at things. Many have even objected to Republican ideas that cost too much money. There's a spending issue in DC that needs to be fixed. Bush was fiscally irresponsible as well, so I'm not going to listen to any Bush did this to explain why it's OK that Obama did that... Both are idiots when it comes to fiscal responsiblity for this country.

We HAVE to stop spending/wasting so much damn money on stupid stuff that gov't shouldn't be involved in. I have no illusions that Romney/Ryan will fix all that, but I have more faith in a man that's run a business and actually worked in the real world than a man who was never more than a community organizer and who has so far been a poor president.

[WuDrWu]

Wow, @Kung Wu: was right! ... go away, fall asleep, and this thread blows up! :)

Thanks @kcshocker11: for covering my tail in my absence. Just as much as Obama supporters "blame Bush," Bush's record is glossed over by conservatives and they "blame Obama." Truth is, there's plenty of blame to spread around to both sides. But here's the deal: anyone would have had their hands full getting this country back on track. Sure, Obama's had 3+ years, including 2 with a Democratic Congress, but for almost two years the do-nothing Republicans have put their agenda ahead of the best interests of this country. They block jobs bills so they can blame Obama for high unemployment. They try to block increases to our debt ceiling so that they can blame Obama for ruining the country's credit rating. They block every meaningful attempt to get our economy back on track and offer no meaningful plans of their own. They need to quit the BS and the games and start offering some freaking solutions.

With all due respect, Rocky Mountain Shock, calling them the "do nothing Republicans" shows how much you buy into one side of the argument. The Republicans passed all kinds of legislation. Why isn't it the "do nothing Democrats" in the Senate? As a conservative, one that cares almost exclusively about the fiscal issues (the rest we can figure out one way or the other), I challenge you to look a little deeper into the issues and not listen so much to Rachel Maddow.

[Capitol Shock II]

Add "Continue to operate our nation for four years without a budget" to my original list. I don't care if you hate George Bush, that's history and he's not running. The question is do you agree with or want to continue the list that I started in this thread. How can anyone but a Facist look at that list and say, yes all of those things are good for our country? Things need to change now, it may be too late already. Quit blaming George Bush and fix this damn thing.

[JohnnieBallgame]

Didn't Obama "the great uniter", say he was going to change the tone in DC? Then right away, one of his first statements was "we won", then to paraphrase, there was something about "Republicans can come along for the ride but they've got to sit in the back."

At least the Republicans weren't showing the same civility the Democrats did when they were writing books on how to assasinate G.W. Bush.

Oh yeah, I remember, we've got to pass Obamacare so we can know what's in it? Wow, what great statesmen and how smart are all of the citizens who voted for this gang? Apparently they are all smarter than me because I don't get it at all.

[Capitol Shock II]

If you like being 16 trillion dollars in debt and want it to increase. At this point, what's another trillion? We can't pay it back anyway.
If you like having 44 million people on food stamps...can you imagine if these people were forced to wait in line for their subsidy?
If you like welfare recipients not having any conditions to receive welfare checks...why don't we all sign up?
If you like an American Poverty rate of 16%, roughly the same as the 1960's. Have all of the billions we've spent on poverty done any good at all? Thanks China for all that cash.
If you like a weaker military and are hoping that China, who holds most of our debt, becomes the sole world power and our landlord.
If you like the idea of government run everything from Healthcare to Automobiles to Student Loans. If only we could have the government regulate our food consumption, oh wait?
If you think that an unemployment rate of over 8% is a good thing. Actually the real number is probably closer to double that, but other than the 10 million people without jobs who cares?
If you think that the number of Americans claiming disability monthly is greater than the number of jobs being produced is a good thing.
If you think that the Constitution of the United States should not be adhered or followed by our elected citizens and that they alone determine law and who is in violation of them.
If you think that you owe the government everything and that you owe all of your blessings, success's and virtue to the government for without government you would be nothing.
If you like paying more than $3.50 per gallon for gasoline and think that bicycles and batteries will power transportation in the future.
If you think that every challenge you face, every bad decision you make is somebody else's fault.

Sorry everyone...just had to get this off my chest.

I'm posting this again. Pull your head out....the things on the above list don't benefit you even if you are a Democrat! Money does not grow on trees and none, I repeat, NONE of these benefits are sustainable at the current rate. The Post Office has missed two major payments in the last four weeks and is going broke. Medicare is going broke, Social Security is going broke. We have a trillion dollar ANNUAL deficit. We have 44 million on food stamps, we have millions on disability, we have millions on welfare. Do you really think that taxing the rich is going to pay for all this? Hell, 50% of the population doesn't even pay taxes! Do you really think that the current administration isnt smart enough to do the math on this stuff and yet they do nothing? Care to ask yourself why?

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

With all due respect, Rocky Mountain Shock, calling them the "do nothing Republicans" shows how much you buy into one side of the argument. The Republicans passed all kinds of legislation. Why isn't it the "do nothing Democrats" in the Senate? As a conservative, one that cares almost exclusively about the fiscal issues (the rest we can figure out one way or the other), I challenge you to look a little deeper into the issues and not listen so much to Rachel Maddow.

I don't even know who Rachel Maddow is. I get most of my political knowledge from www.factcheck.org and www.politifact.com, two sources that are about as close to nonpartisan as you can get these days. I hardly pay any attention to news channels these days, especially Fox News, as they have never been more slanted. Republicans have pretty much turned blocking Obama's agenda into a competitive sport. I'm old enough to remember when even the most bitter of political rivals would agree to disagree and in the end compromise and come together for the good of the country. A lot of members of Congress seem more willing to stick to their misguided ideology at all costs than to do what's best. No side of the political spectrum has all the answers, and if we're going to get out of this mess, it's going to take ideas from all sides, not just the self-proclaimed "conservatives."

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

I'm posting this again. Pull your head out....the things on the above list don't benefit you even if you are a Democrat! Money does not grow on trees and none, I repeat, NONE of these benefits are sustainable at the current rate. The Post Office has missed two major payments in the last four weeks and is going broke. Medicare is going broke, Social Security is going broke. We have a trillion dollar ANNUAL deficit. We have 44 million on food stamps, we have millions on disability, we have millions on welfare. Do you really think that taxing the rich is going to pay for all this? Hell, 50% of the population doesn't even pay taxes! Do you really think that the current administration isnt smart enough to do the math on this stuff and yet they do nothing? Care to ask yourself why?

But Obama isn't to blame for all of this, or even most of it. And considering the title of this thread, it would seem that point is trying to be made. I could make a long list of reasons not to vote Republican, including a failed economic policy revolving around the idea that low taxes cure everything, and a social agenda even more totalitarian than Democrats (after all, Democrats don't want the government deciding who you should marry, what women should do with their bodies, or what our national priorities should be based on a group of people's religious beliefs). The Republicans, who preach a small unintrusive government and fiscal responsiblity, seem to have a most amazing hypocritical platform. Actually, maybe I should make that long list...

[Aargh]

As soon as either party puts the needs of the nation ahead of their party agenda, I will support that party.

Reagan spent like no one before him had ever spent - maybe Roosevelt if you consider current values of dollars. But somehow, he's the poster child of the fiscally conservative Republican party. Bill Clinton presided over the most successful economic period in recent history, but somehow he's known as an anti-business tax and spend guy who destroyed businesses with his policies.

Once you accept those facts, you will see that politicians lie to you. They are very good at it. They tell you one thing - then do something completely opposite - then tell you they did what they originally told you. The good ones have you believing it.

I am a Republican by choice, but those guys telling me they want less government and less spending is one of the biggest lies I've ever been fed. Take a look at the charts and graphs that the right-leaning posters have placed in this thread. Ford, Reagan, Bush, and Bush are some of the biggest spenders we've ever had.

Republicans claim they want smaller and less government, but they keep passing more and more laws that are social in nature and have nothing to do with the basic nature of government (to provide collectively what the people cannot provide individually - roads, defense (not offense), etc.).

Republicans lately seem to have a penchant for passing economic laws that benefit the wealthiest while penalizing the bottom end of the economic spectrum. I'm certainly not in favor of forcing the wealthy to share their money with the poor, but I'm less inclined to force the poor to share their money with the wealthy. Why is it Socialist to penalize the wealthy to benefit the poor, but not Socialist to penalize the poor to benefit the wealthy?

You want a smaller government and less government spending at no cost to the national economy? Stop the "War on Drugs". It has absolutely failed and discontinuing it is not going to increase drug usage among the population. The actual effect of stopping the "War on Drugs" would probably be to cut off funding for gangts like the Bloods and Crips. The Mafia got its major funding and foothold on other fronts from Prohibition. The Bloods and Crips are doing the same thing with drugs.

[Capitol Shock II]

When our financial system collapses and the dollar collapses will you regret not voting for somebody that was trying to change the direction of this mess? I saw an interview with one of Paul Ryan's teachers last night. Basically said that Paul was a great guy who still returns to the class to visit and share with students. He said he was a very intelligent and outgoing person but he would never vote for him because of his view that Education should be handled by the states? What? It struck me as completely self serving, a kind of "As long as I get mine" attitude. That's in part what's wrong with America now. I vote somebody who is trying to repair the country because if they are elected I may have my benefit cut? REALLY?

[SubGod22]

When our financial system collapses and the dollar collapses will you regret not voting for somebody that was trying to change the direction of this mess? I saw an interview with one of Paul Ryan's teachers last night. Basically said that Paul was a great guy who still returns to the class to visit and share with students. He said he was a very intelligent and outgoing person but he would never vote for him because of his view that Education should be handled by the states? What? It struck me as completely self serving, a kind of "As long as I get mine" attitude. That's in part what's wrong with America now. I vote somebody who is trying to repair the country because if they are elected I may have my benefit cut? REALLY?

And that's why politicians are scared to take on what needs to be taken on. Social Security, Welfare, Medicaid/Medicare and the likes. Ryan wants to do it. He's talked about doing it. It needs to be done. But those who just want handouts no matter the cost to the country won't go for it. There have been reports that women and seniors actually view Ryan more favorably than not, so maybe some are starting to wake up and look at what's actually going on. It's not so much about what's good for us. It's what's good for our kids and our kids, kids.

And I'm a little tired of Rocky Mountain talking about Republicans telling women what they can and can't do with their bodies. Republicans are just trying to defend the innocent life within. Outside of that, let the whore do whatever she wants. The willful killing of the innocent is what that debate is about. I hate when they try to spin it differently.

[Rocky Mountain Shock]

We need to take on Social Security, Welfare, Medicaid/Medicare. We also need to take on defense spending, we also need to reverse course on tax policy. I'm glad Republicans want to address spending, but they don't have all the answers. Republicans have sacred cows that they don't want touched--well you can't have your cake and eat it too. If we're going to reduce spending on social programs, we better ask whether it also makes sense to spend more on defense than the rest of the world combined. We also better ask ourselves that if right now, when our kids are set to inherit an amount of debt that is impossible for most of us to even imagine, if having the lowest tax rates since the 1950s makes any sense. Republicans seem laser focused on cutting spending--but only on programs they don't traditionally support. More game playing. At least Obama is open minded and has acknowledged that if we're going to get out of this mess, we need to have all options on the table.

Let me address abortion quickly and let's be done with that horrible subject. I think someone needs to try to defend the innocent life within. I'm all for private organizations and churches to continue educating women to make the best possible decision. But is it the role of government to ban it???? No!! That's a decision that I think should be left to the woman, after she consults her family, her doctor, and whatever God she prays to. That is an incredibly personal decision and I say leave government out of it. Thankfully, I have never had to make the difficult choice that some women have had to make, and without walking a mile in their shoes I don't care to second guess what some of them have done. Of course it shouldn't be used as a form of birth control, and I hope that's what you mean when you say "whore" because there's a lot of women out there who aren't "whores". But if we just let government start dictating decisions like this, based on the religious beliefs of a portion of our population, we'll become a totalitarian state far faster than by any of Obama's so-called "socialist" programs.

I can't wait for basketball season to gear up. That should mean I won't have time to visit the political threads!! Yikes!!

[Kung Wu]

We also better ask ourselves that if right now, when our kids are set to inherit an amount of debt that is impossible for most of us to even imagine, if having the lowest tax rates since the 1950s makes any sense.

Are you sure about that? (Here we go again)

[SubGod22]

I'm not against cutting spending on defense or any other program. I just pointed out the big ones that nobody wants to touch. We must have a strong national defense and I don't want to cripple that, but there's a lot of waste there and everywhere else. I'm for cuts everywhere. It doesn't have to be one or another, it should be all that are up for cuts and that includes education. I'm also tired of reading/hearing people talk about how horrible gov't is if they don't increase education spending. We spend a lot more money per student now than we did 20 years ago and nothing has improved. Except maybe the pay of the teachers, but the progress of the students is where it is. Schools also need to learn to budget better. Some do a good job now, others don't. And I don't buy that teachers are vastly under paid either.

We could also save a lot of money if gov't would get out of things they were never supposed to be involved with. Some programs/departments should be eliminated completely.

And back to abortion, I just can't wrap my mind around willingly ending the life of the unborn for no reason other than you don't want it. There are exceptions that I'd be ok with, but a lot of them are done just because they don't want them. Adoption is a wonderful option for those people. And I wasn't calling all women that have an abortions whores. But there are too many that use it as birth control rather than being responsible. That sickens me.

[Kung Wu]

I get most of my political knowledge from www.factcheck.org and www.politifact.com, two sources that are about as close to nonpartisan as you can get these days.

O.M.G.

[Kung Wu]

Republicans lately seem to have a penchant for passing economic laws that benefit the wealthiest while penalizing the bottom end of the economic spectrum. I'm certainly not in favor of forcing the wealthy to share their money with the poor, but I'm less inclined to force the poor to share their money with the wealthy. Why is it Socialist to penalize the wealthy to benefit the poor, but not Socialist to penalize the poor to benefit the wealthy?

Give us some examples of these Republican economic laws that have passed, penalizing the bottom end of the economic spectrum.

You want a smaller government and less government spending at no cost to the national economy? Stop the "War on Drugs".

Right on.