Trial on Death of Ahmaud Arbery

[jdmee]

https://youtu.be/c75ZrtdHNRA

This video even has the defense lawyer saying they tried to detain in the trial.

[ShockTalk]

You are missing the fact that the defense admitted to the fact they were trying to conduct a citizen arrest and detain him. That Bryan bumped into him in with his truck, running him off the road, in the events leading up to the killing. There are others facts also.

The last couple of days I have been watching Nate the lawyer's YouTube channel. He and the panel of lawyers who were on with him are saying guilty. They are basically saying the jury has to disregard the law to say not guilty. These are conservative lawyers who were on Rittenhouse's side throughout that trial.

Thanks. I didn't know that. So, even if they didn't try to detain him during the time listed in my post, they did previously. So, I am assuming the prosecution can "link" the events. Still seems a little of a reach due to time separation of events.

[SB Shock]

8) The gun goes off during the struggle, shooting Arbery.


What am I missing?

If they did not have probable cause, then the shooting will deem illegal detainment and they have violated the victim's civil rights. There are supreme court rulings on this.

[wufan]

They killed a person while committing a crime. That is the definition of Felony Murder.


As for Bryan, he took part in the illegal detainment of Arbery. That in turn could link him to the murder.


The time frame for a citizen arrest makes perfect sense. How do they know the police hasn't already arrested him and he is out on bail? How do they know he was arrested, pled guilty and was sentenced to community service? That is why it has to be witnessed and immediate. They stated they were trying to arrest him for something they heard someone like him did days ago.

I’m not disagreeing with the legal explanation you are providing. I’m disagreeing that all four men were attempting to commit a felony or murder. They did it by accident. How many felons are out there that weren’t trying to commit a crime?

[MikeKennedyRulZ]

Didn’t one of them also say under oath that he didn’t feel threatened by Arbery? That alone will cook their goose.

[ShockTalk]

If they did not have probable cause, then the shooting will deem illegal detainment and they have violated the victim's civil rights. There are supreme court rulings on this.

So basically, they did not have probable cause (yes, I agree with that), the victim can either do nothing and might get shot (attempted murder or murder without a doubt) or make a grab for the gun and most likely get shot (self-caused, but at least the victim can be assured the person with the gun gets at least attempted murder or murder charges). Sounds reasonable.

[SubGod22]

It's been a while since I've been involved with this case. Was the gun being pointed at Arbery before he went for it? That's a big factor and if memory serves it was, which would make Arbery's actions defensive in nature and the shooter the aggressor. Especially without having any valid reason to be attempting to stop and detain him.

I'll need to brush up on this case in a few days to get a better understanding and refresher on the details of the case and how it's been presented in court.

[ShockTalk]

Didn’t one of them also say under oath that he didn’t feel threatened by Arbery? That alone will cook their goose.

At which point: before Arbery made a play for the gun (very likely) or after Arbrey tried to take the gun away (not likely at all)?

I'll add that they should not have had a gun out at all.

[ShockTalk]

It's been a while since I've been involved with this case. Was the gun being pointed at Arbery before he went for it? That's a big factor and if memory serves it was, which would make Arbery's actions defensive in nature and the shooter the aggressor. Especially without having any valid reason to be attempting to stop and detain him.

I'll need to brush up on this case in a few days to get a better understanding and refresher on the details of the case and how it's been presented in court.

Only if the shooter said he did. The video does not show that because that action was blocked by the truck. I do not believe the gun was raised as the son went in front of the opened door and the front of the truck. If it had been raised, the son did not fire it at the time Arbery grabbed it as the gun is pointed downwards as the two reappear from in front of the truck as the son was back-peddling, gun lowered with Arbrey holding the barrel down towards his feet/lower legs. That would tell me there was no intent to shoot/kill Arbery, until such time the son then felt threatened if he lost the gun.

No doubt, under state law, they should not have been doing what they were and are guilty of that. However, given the circumstances, Arbrey created his own death. That does not relieve the son of misuse of the handling of a gun, but I do not believe there was intent to shoot or kill Arbery prior to Arbery's actions.

[jdmee]

I’m not disagreeing with the legal explanation you are providing. I’m disagreeing that all four men were attempting to commit a felony or murder. They did it by accident. How many felons are out there that weren’t trying to commit a crime?

Unlike many states, Georgia doesn't have degrees of murder, but instead has malice murder and felony murder. Neither requires prosecutors to prove an intent to kill.

Malice murder is when a person “unlawfully and with malice aforethought, either express or implied, causes the death of another human being.” No evidence of premeditation is required.

Express malice involves an intent to kill. Implied malice is when the there is “no considerable provocation” and the circumstances of the killing “show an abandoned and malignant heart,” which essentially means the person has acted with extreme recklessness even if there was no intent to kill, said Georgia State University law professor Russell Covey.

Felony murder applies when someone who has no plans to kill intentionally commits another felony and a person dies as a result. The person must be convicted of the underlying felony to be found guilty of felony murder.

If they were committing a felony (unlawful detainment) and that lead to Arbery's death that is Felony Murder. If it was by extreme recklessness that is Malice Murder. Intent doesn't matter.

You don't have to be the one who pulls the trigger, just your actions lead to the death.

This is where they are getting Roddie Bryan. His actions of prevented Arbery from escaping, thus lead to his death. I am not sure I buy that in this case and this one is not open and shut.

[jdmee]

The act of chasing Arbery makes them the aggressor. As the aggressor you can not claim self defense. That is why the "citizen arrest" is so important to the defense. That would give them the right to chase him. I just don't think they meet the criteria given to the jury by the judge for executing a citizens arrest.

[wufan]

If they were committing a felony (unlawful detainment) and that lead to Arbery's death that is Felony Murder. If it was by extreme recklessness that is Malice Murder. Intent doesn't matter.

You don't have to be the one who pulls the trigger, just your actions lead to the death.

This is where they are getting Roddie Bryan. His actions of prevented Arbery from escaping, thus lead to his death. I am not sure I buy that in this case and this one is not open and shut.

Well, I think the law sucks. Thanks for the explanation though.

[SubGod22]

Only just saw a headline, but Travis McMichael appears to have been found guilty of murder.

Apparently all three men have been found guilty of murder.

[SubGod22]

3 men involved in Ahmaud Arbery's killing found guilty of murder and other charges

Travis McMichael, who fatally shot Arbery, is guilty on all charges: malice murder, four counts of felony murder, two counts of aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal attempt to commit a felony;

His father, Gregory McMichael, who rode armed in the bed of a pickup truck as his son pursued Arbery, is not guilty of malice murder but guilty on the other eight charges.

And William "Roddie" Bryan Jr., a neighbor who joined the pursuit and filmed Arbery's final moments, is guilty of three counts of felony murder, one count of aggravated assault, false imprisonment and criminal attempt to commit a felony.

Simple breakdown of what charges who was found guilty of.

[wufan]

How is it possible that one of these men is guilty of “four counts of felony murder”? One man is dead and another man is convicted of malice murder AND four counts of felony murder?

Are they able to sentence consecutively?