Conservatives vs. Progressives vs. Trump's supporters

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[WuDrWu]

There's going to be a lot of talk among everyone in Washington that is trying to save their job about building back better (Biden) and rebuilding and repairing DC.

In many many ways, DC needed and still needs to be dismantled, burned down, destroyed...whatever descriptive term you want to use that politically ****ing correct these days.


These career politicians WERE AND STILL ARE the problem. Not a "woke" new age "we'll do better now" group of the same ilk. And 'Cold, all kidding aside, you're dangerously close to embracing the status quo because of the acts of 1.


Just wait a year and see who the winners are in this deal. I'll bet anything it's very, very swampy.

[C0|dB|00ded]

There's going to be a lot of talk among everyone in Washington that is trying to save their job about building back better (Biden) and rebuilding and repairing DC.

In many many ways, DC needed and still needs to be dismantled, burned down, destroyed...whatever descriptive term you want to use that politically ****ing correct these days.


These career politicians WERE AND STILL ARE the problem. Not a "woke" new age "we'll do better now" group of the same ilk. And 'Cold, all kidding aside, you're dangerously close to embracing the status quo because of the acts of 1.


Just wait a year and see who the winners are in this deal. I'll bet anything it's very, very swampy.

I'll take the swamp over sedition, but I really like the idea of turning D.C. into an amusement park. See other thread.

[RoyalShock]

I actually see the political spectrum being broken into 3 parties

Democrats
Republicans
MAGA

This is what I see happening as well, and it could take a generation or more to repair the damage. It will give Democrats a virtual monopoly on policy for at least a couple more election cycles.

[Shockm]

It will give Democrats a virtual monopoly on policy for at least a couple more election cycles.

I disagree that it will take a generation for the Republican Party to recover. But the Swamp will continue to be a problem.

Some of the Dems are going to make a move right now. Bowzer is asking for DC to become a State. Biden said he wants DC to become a State too. Here's the problem and we will just have to see if true moderates like Manchin goes along. The District has always been considered a neutral place where people can come to give a voice to their government, to demonstrate, and to protest.

DC has been give more money than most states to run their government, their schools, etc. Do you know that DC receives $30,000 per student for their public schools? That is more than anyone else gets. Becoming a State would not only change the balance in Congress with two more Senators and a bevy of Reps in the House, but it would change how others view Washington DC, the Memorials, their White House, and the People's House.

[RoyalShock]

I disagree that it will take a generation for the Republican Party to recover. But the Swamp will continue to be a problem.

Some of the Dems are going to make a move right now. Bowzer is asking for DC to become a State. Biden said he wants DC to become a State too. Here's the problem and we will just have to see if true moderates like Manchin goes along. The District has always been considered a neutral place where people can come to give a voice to their government, to demonstrate, and to protest.

DC has been give more money than most states to run their government, their schools, etc. Do you know that DC receives $30,000 per student for their public schools? That is more than anyone else gets. Becoming a State would not only change the balance in Congress with two more Senators and a bevy of Reps in the House, but it would change how others view Washington DC, the Memorials, their White House, and the People's House.

I agree with your points on DC. If efforts to make it a state and give it Congressional seats the Republicans will have a serious uphill climb to regain control of either house.

If an actual third party splinters off from the Republicans (that takes 25% or more of the current GOP), you'd have to present an extremely compelling argument for how the Democrats won't secure and keep a majority of both houses for the next 8 years. Any district or state that gets a candidate from that party on the general election ballot is likely to go Dem, particularly in districts where the GOP candidate usually wins with a comfortable, if narrow, margin, such as with 55-60 percent. If it's a district that routinely gets more than 60 percent, there's a good chance they can still hold it.

It's possible that any new 3rd party has no more impact than the Green or Reform parties did. In that case, it may be less than a generation before the GOP is whole again.

[Shockm]

I agree with your points on DC. If efforts to make it a state and give it Congressional seats the Republicans will have a serious uphill climb to regain control of either house.

If an actual third party splinters off from the Republicans (that takes 25% or more of the current GOP), you'd have to present an extremely compelling argument for how the Democrats won't secure and keep a majority of both houses for the next 8 years. Any district or state that gets a candidate from that party on the general election ballot is likely to go Dem, particularly in districts where the GOP candidate usually wins with a comfortable, if narrow, margin, such as with 55-60 percent. If it's a district that routinely gets more than 60 percent, there's a good chance they can still hold it.

It's possible that any new 3rd party has no more impact than the Green or Reform parties did. In that case, it may be less than a generation before the GOP is whole again.

I just don’t see a 3rd Party happening. The Never Trumpers didn’t like some of Trumps policies, but mostly they didn’t like Trump. I was with them on not liking Trump, but his policies were ok with me. He was right that prescription drug prices were higher in America. Big Pharma didn’t mind sending American workers jobs going to China. His immigration policies were right in that workers wages were drug down by illegals. Trumps redoing NAFTA was right for American workers. Trumps tax policies were right to bring workers jobs back to America. The Establishment liked his tax policies but not the others.

Where will Never Trumpers go? Most of their Establishment Republican friends made peace with Trump and his policies. Never-Trumpers know a 3rd Party has no chance of doing anything just as Bernie knows a Socialist Party will go nowhere. Since Trump will be gone, I predict that the NT’s will filter back with their friends. They may call themselves Independents, but they have no influence anyway. I mean Bill Kristol? George Conway? Schmidt? They have Democrat friends only.

[RoyalShock]

I'm not talking about the never-Trumpers splintering off. I'm talking about the MAGA wing doing it.

[Shockm]

I'm not talking about the never-Trumpers splintering off. I'm talking about the MAGA wing doing it.

You think the blue collar workers will leave and go back? The Dems have become the party of Open borders. If the Dems raise taxes, those jobs will go back overseas. We will see but I don’t think so.

[RoyalShock]

You think the blue collar workers will leave and go back? The Dems have become the party of Open borders. If the Dems raise taxes, those jobs will go back overseas. We will see but I don’t think so.

I'm not convinced the angry Trumpists who still believe the election was stolen (and I know several) will be that reasonable or pragmatic.

[SB Shock]

I'm not convinced the angry Trumpists who still believe the election was stolen (and I know several) will be that reasonable or pragmatic.

I know some also, I have tried talking to them - it is a losing cause as they are so far down the rabbit hole they can't see their way out.

[Shockm]

I'm not convinced the angry Trumpists who still believe the election was stolen (and I know several) will be that reasonable or pragmatic.

Maybe not but Nikki Haley is an example of a leader they might follow. It’s interesting in her speech just this week, Haley says that while Trump’s words were not always right, the Republican Party needs to acknowledge the Populist accomplishments made the past 4 years. Examples given included ——- Middle East Peace deals and slowing down Iran, Inroads made into Black and Brown voting communities, the firewall placed in front of aggressive Chinese policies and economic stealing, etc.

Its interesting to me that Haley’s speech criticized Trump and his words, including the Capitol riots but included many accomplishments as well, including that the Party needs to expand on his accomplishments, and the liberal Politico story emphasizes her brief statement regarding Trump’s misteps that led to the riots in their headline. Personally, I think that the Rep. leaders, including Congressional leaders need to be critical of Trump but not continue to allow the Democrats comments to alter the true narrative of the past year. Example being the changing of the narrative that this mob was worse than the entire summer of mobs from June to September.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...s-trump-456320

[RoyalShock]

I know some also, I have tried talking to them - it is a losing cause as they are so far down the rabbit hole they can't see their way out.

Yep. They have insulated themselves inside a cocoon of biased media, just like people on the left have done, and eat up everything Trump says as if it's undisputed fact, incapable of nuance or understanding the complexity of issues. Every time one of their "antifa did it" theories is debunked they have another one ready to go, if they even realize or recognize the previous ones are wrong.

I used to be where they are sometime prior to the 2016 election (having gotten behind Ron Paul in 2007). What's funny is that one of my Trumpist family members, with all of his ridiculous Obama theories and postings, prompted me to begin seeing what was happening on the far right with their own fake news "media". And to clarify, this has nothing to do with conservatism, but everything to do with hyper-partisan politics and rhetoric.

[RoyalShock]

Maybe not but Nikki Haley is an example of a leader they might follow. It’s interesting in her speech just this week, Haley says that while Trump’s words were not always right, the Republican Party needs to acknowledge the Populist accomplishments made the past 4 years. Examples given included ——- Middle East Peace deals and slowing down Iran, Inroads made into Black and Brown voting communities, the firewall placed in front of aggressive Chinese policies and economic stealing, etc.

Its interesting to me that Haley’s speech criticized Trump and his words, including the Capitol riots but included many accomplishments as well, including that the Party needs to expand on his accomplishments, and the liberal Politico story emphasizes her brief statement regarding Trump’s misteps that led to the riots in their headline. Personally, I think that the Rep. leaders, including Congressional leaders need to be critical of Trump but not continue to allow the Democrats comments to alter the true narrative of the past year.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...s-trump-456320

I like Nikki Haley and could see her waging a successful run at a presidential nomination.

Although I wish she wouldn't give credence to the Charlottesville "fine people" hoax. I can't stand Trump but even I know he clarified that comment a few sentences later.

[Aargh]

If I may go back to the original topic and bypass discussion of individuals...

Do Republicans vote for Trump's endorsements in the next election or do they vote for traditional Republican values? Or do they not vote because they didn't get their guy on the ballot?

Has the Republican party given their party to Trump because he turned out the most voters they've ever had? To do that requires that they ignore the fact that the other side also turned out the most votes they ever had and his opponents votes were 7 million more than he got.