On War and Peace

[Kung Wu]

I am pretty sure I know the answer to #2, but I really don't know the answer to #1. I have a couple follow up questions and I want to make sure I have the pulse of the common opinion here. Bare with me on this train of logic.

#1 How long did it take after Pearl Harbor until we liked the Japanese again?

#2 How long until we like Al Qeada?

[shockmonster]

I'll answer your question in another way. I'm sure if we get on our knees and ask Al Queda (and others who want world islamic domination) for forgiveness for our imperialistic ways, they will forgive us, give up on their wishes for world islamic domination and annihilation of Israel, and we will have peace in our world.

[Kung Wu]

I'll answer your question in another way. I'm sure if we get on our knees and ask Al Queda (and others who want world islamic domination) for forgiveness for our imperialistic ways, they will forgive us, give up on their wishes for world islamic domination and annihilation of Israel, and we will have peace in our world.

That didn't answer either question. How long?

[60Shock]

I am pretty sure I know the answer to #2, but I really don't know the answer to #1. I have a couple follow up questions and I want to make sure I have the pulse of the common opinion here. Bare with me on this train of logic.

#1 How long did it take after Pearl Harbor until we liked the Japanese again?

#2 How long until we like Al Qeada?

#2 is easy. Certainly not in the foreseeable future. Perhaps never.

#1: The question you have to ask here is, Who is We? Would imagine that there are still a large number of Americans who still do not like the Japanese. For instance, like anyone who lost a spouse, a son, daughter, a father, mother, brother, sister, an uncle, etc., and the millions of soldiers who fought and lost fellow friends and buddies. Give you a first hand example here as to how these memories last. I was in an Army uniform and as my wife and I were leaving a German coffee house in 1963,18 years after the war in Europe ended. Upon departing, I held the door open for a German lady who was waiting to enter. As she walked by me, she tried to spit in my face and accused me of killing her son. To her dieing day, you can bet she hated all Americans. On the other hand, our government, for military reasons, started "liking" them shortly after the war as that is when we started rebuilding Japan as both a buffer against the Russians and the Chinese. But, for a ballpark figure, overall, perhaps 15-20 years.

[shockmonster]

I am pretty sure I know the answer to #2, but I really don't know the answer to #1.

The problem I have with your question is that you are playing gotcha games. If you know the answer to 2, then state your answer. You have alterior motives and you want to set a trap for your follow up questions. That's not a discussion.

[Wu du Nord]

I am pretty sure I know the answer to #2, but I really don't know the answer to #1. I have a couple follow up questions and I want to make sure I have the pulse of the common opinion here. Bare with me on this train of logic.

Not sure where you're going with this, but I'll play.

#1 How long did it take after Pearl Harbor until we liked the Japanese again?

Assuming normal conversational usages of 'we' 'liked' 'the Japanese,' I'd posit that relationships normalized in roughly the 80's time frame. Roughly the same time that their cars and electronics got more betterer. Also, roughly a full generation removed from the end of formal hostilities.

#2 How long until we like Al Qeada?

I don't get this one. Al Qeada (sic) isn't an ethnic group, a nation, a formal governing body or anything much of the sort.
It's more similar to a club with a wicked mission statement. Ever liking something dedicated to your destruction doesn't seem possible helpful.

Can you 'like' Muslims and the planet's assorted brown people, sure. Might as well start yesterday.

[Kung Wu]

#1: The question you have to ask here is, Who is We? Would imagine that there are still a large number of Americans who still do not like the Japanese. For instance, like anyone who lost a spouse, a son, daughter, a father, mother, brother, sister, an uncle, etc., and the millions of soldiers who fought and lost fellow friends and buddies. Give you a first hand example here as to how these memories last. I was in an Army uniform and as my wife and I were leaving a German coffee house in 1963,18 years after the war in Europe ended. Upon departing, I held the door open for a German lady who was waiting to enter. As she walked by me, she tried to spit in my face and accused me of killing her son. To her dieing day, you can bet she hated all Americans. On the other hand, our government, for military reasons, started "liking" them shortly after the war as that is when we started rebuilding Japan as both a buffer against the Russians and the Chinese. But, for a ballpark figure, overall, perhaps 15-20 years.

Assuming normal conversational usages of 'we' 'liked' 'the Japanese,' I'd posit that relationships normalized in roughly the 80's time frame. Roughly the same time that their cars and electronics got more betterer. Also, roughly a full generation removed from the end of formal hostilities.

Wow, thanks for sharing 60Shock. These stories should be told!

Yes, I probably should explain "we" better. What I meant by "we" was simply "collective American public opinion". There will always be eternal haters, and there will always be those that never hated in the first place (for myriad reasons). But the collective American opinion is on neither extreme. I'd probably split the difference with @60Shock: who says perhaps 1965 and @WU: do Nord who says perhaps mid-80s. I don't remember as a kid growing up in the 70's learning ill-will toward Japan. I think that's because of Vietnam. I really had no feel for this as I was just too young, being two generations removed (going to @Wu du Nord:'s point).

#2 is easy. Certainly not in the foreseeable future. Perhaps never.

I don't get this one. Al Qeada (sic) isn't an ethnic group, a nation, a formal governing body or anything much of the sort. It's more similar to a club with a wicked mission statement. Ever liking something dedicated to your destruction doesn't seem possible helpful.

These are my best guesses on #2 and @WU: do Nord explains why. With Japan, we were fighting a country, with a government, where change and reconciliation over some period of time is possible. With Al Qaeda, they appear to be soley a group of extremists whose philosophy seems unlikely to change no matter what. I think as opposed to "liking" Al Qaeda I should have said, "How long until they aren't on our minds anymore". That will of course depend on how long it takes for our war machine to drive them irrelevancy. Taking out Bin Laden and cutting off their money supply is obviously the beginning of that end.

[Kung Wu]

The problem I have with your question is that you are playing gotcha games. If you know the answer to 2, then state your answer. You have alterior motives and you want to set a trap for your follow up questions. That's not a discussion.

There is no hidden agenda. There is a logic train, and I explained that in the opening. This logic train can come off the rails and crash at any time. Believe me, I've had lots of "good ideas" that didn't turn out so well.

[Kung Wu]

A new question just popped up since I had to clarify "we". If "we" equals "collective American public opinion", it'd be safe to say that includes the sentiment of "left" and the "right". And would it be fair to say the left, having a stronger anti-war sentiment would have a shorter time-frame for reconciliation and the right would have a more skeptical view of the world and therefore have a longer time-frame? But if you average out the two groups you get your collective opinion? Actually just sitting here typing that makes me think of the "peace" movement by the youth in the 60's which could reflect @60Shock:'s time-frame and the war in Vietnam may have drug out the right's time-frame (maintaining the skepticism of Asia in general).

[Wu du Nord]

Warning: Tangentially related, but if you put your mind to it, I think you'll see an interesting twist on the topic at hand.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/philosopherszone/the-morality-of-robo-wars---pw-singer/3701744

[SB Shock]

#2 How long until we like Al Qeada?

"

Maybe when Ron Paul is elected president.

[pinstripers]

My Dad fought in the Pacific during WWII, and for him, his hatred of the Japanese lasted a lifetime.

[Kung Wu]

Maybe when Ron Paul is elected president.

LOL

My Dad fought in the Pacific during WWII, and for him, his hatred of the Japanese lasted a lifetime.

Yeah, I can see how that would be the case. If you were in the thick of it, it would be hard to let it go. What is your disposition toward the Japanese, being only one generation removed?

[60Shock]

My Dad fought in the Pacific during WWII, and for him, his hatred of the Japanese lasted a lifetime.

Pin, I sincerely hope your father never witnessed the brutality and some of the many attrocities attributed to the Japanese during the war in the Pacific.

The following are comments by a close friend of mine who served during WWII, witnessed some of these acts, and is way up ther in his 80's. It will not be too much longer before this generation is sadly no longer with us. You can bet, this gentleman and others like him will never forgive either.

I am not saying we should not forgive. As I as a matter of fact, I, and my family were stationed in Japan from 1977-1980 and were fortunate to make several great and wonderful Japanese friends with whom we are still in contact with and two of these couples have even visited us here in the United States.

"I was stationed in Montana and we had a ramp full of C-54s which we were overhauling and getting ready for the invasion of Japan. Several friends were on orders to go on the invasion. Later, I was in Charge of War Plans of a base with 66 4-eng transports and was had plans for each one of those planes in case of a war. The Japanese had been involved in the massacre and raping that was the RAPE of NANKING, They had beheaded and eaten the other Navy Pilots who had been shot down with George Bush (senior). Bush was shot down but picked up by a USW sub. If you want to know how our men were treated by the Japs, read, “The Unbroken.” Some of the B29 crews shot down over Japan were without anesthetic and were killed by pouring boiling water over then. Some had the tops of their skulls removed and knives plunged into their brains to see how they would react. We had intercepted orders that all our POWs were to be executed."

[kcshocker11]

# WW2 generation never regained trust. Baby boomers hold no hatred.