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Brexit is becoming an Anti-Democracy Exercise for the ELITES in Britain

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  • #16
    Originally posted by jdshock View Post

    We are not a democracy, though. We are a constitutional republic.

    If we were a democracy, yeah, of course it would go against the framework of our government to overturn democratically passed referendums. In the US, we have a constitution which cannot be amended through a simple majority vote of US citizens. That's just not how it works. So of course the majority can get overturned if the majority is asking for something that is unconstitutional. The constitution is not meant to protect the majority. Constitutional rights are important in order to protect the minority. We wouldn't need free speech rights if we only cared about what 51% of people agreed on.

    I'm not going to apply it to Brexit because I don't (care to?) know enough about their framework and history. But in the United States, we have a specific framework for amending the constitution, and it is explicitly not a democratic procedure. What you are saying would absolutely justify 51% of the population stripping all rights of the 49%. That is not how our government is supposed to operate.
    You want to argue the differences about a democracy and Republic? I was using democracy as a term that includes most of Western European countries, etc. The west invented democratic rule and while it's not the best idea for us to require this of other countries, we did export our ideas to Japan, South Korea, and many other countries. Russia and China would say they have votes too but we all know that they are ruled by a few and their people (majority) don't really have a say in what is happening. That is why the millions of people of Hong Kong are so unhappy. They see their freedoms withering away.

    With a referendum, we aren't talking about Constitutional Amendment. UK doesn't have a Constitution like we do. Majority rule is a Principle in any form of democracy (including a Republic). I still maintain that if you want to frustrate people in a democratic form of government (you can include Republic or whatever other word you wish), nullify their vote by nullifying an election. Their frustration will lead to people finding another way to express themselves that may not be healthy.


    • #17
      Originally posted by Shockm View Post

      My only point is that when a vote of the majority are ignored and nullified by Elites, in a Democracy, the DEMOCRACY is damaged. That absolutely cannot be argued against. It totally creates a distrust of ALL democratic principles. Everything else is a sideline if one cares about self rule and self determination. This will also be the result if impeachment in the US happens w/o the large majority of the people believing in it.
      It is damage either way.

      All I am saying is you don't govern by referendum and let a simple majority determine you direction of the country. Especially when the majority is actually a minority who was just more enthused about voting.

      Impeachment in the U.S. is just goblegook. It is much like Trump "lock her up" campaign slogan he used. He used it to keep his base fired up, but he had no control over it and nobody was ever going to lock here up. This is Pelosi red meat to their base who feel like they were not being listened too. It is just politics.


      • #18
        I am definitely rooting for a hard Brexit. The UK deserves the right to determine who enters their borders. There's healthy immigration and then there's a cultural takeover by overpopulated 3rd world countries. Cultural integration is inevitable, but it's happening too quickly in many places, particularly London.




        • #19
          I think the immigrants are culturally appropriating British land.
          Livin the dream