Atheism and its Scientific Pretensions

[Maggie]

listen

His debate v Hitchens

[Shirley Schmidt]

Deism vs. Atheism and Christianity

http://www.deism.com/deism_vs.htm

[SB Shock]

Deism vs. Atheism and Christianity

http://www.deism.com/deism_vs.htm

when a site gets the basic facts wrong about something you have to question their agenda and whether it is a lie from the pit of hell. case in point.

A good example is Christianity. Some of the Christian denominations say an essential qualification to get into heaven (of course they all agree dying is a key requirement) is that you have to be baptized "by submersion," while others say just a "sprinkling" is fine. Which is it? Sprinkling or submersion??

The gospel is simply this.

1. God is Holy and perfect. God is eternal.

2. Man is sinful and evil. There is no man who has not sinned and have fallen short of God standards.

3. Sin lead to judgement and death.

4. But God so loves us, that he humbled himself and became one of us (a man, but fully God). He then paid the price for our sins on the cross, so that we could be forgiven and have eternal life. For those who believe will escape judgment, because Jesus paid for all of our sins.

5. If you believe that Yeshua was God and went to the cross so that your debt was paid by Christ then your sins will be forgiven (and saved).

6. If you are saved you will be filled with the holy spirit (which is also God). This will lead to change. God will be constantly convicting you of your sins and calling you into repentance and you will be facing God discipline (even though we are forgiven for our sins, there are still consequences of those sins).

1 Cor 15:3-4 - For what I received I pass on to you as of first importance: that Christ did for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures.

So sayeth the Lord

[SB Shock]

BTW, baptism is simply outward profession of your faith. It does not save you, but as a follower of Jesus you should want everybody to know your decision.

[SubGod22]

SB is on the ball on this

[BOBB]

SB, you are quoting the "facts," probably quite correctly as understood by you denomination. However, I believe that baptism is a necessary, but not sufficient condition in many denominations. Also, some Christian denominations do not believe that Jesus was God, but the son of God and a man. That he achieved perfection on Earth and died for their sins.

[wufan]

Yeah, SB, unfortunately I think you just made the point of the quote you pulled from Shirleys article...what you stated is not what all Christians believe, but only some.

My issue with Deism isn't that it's beliefs are right or wrong, it's that it rejects organized religion as false because it was not "revealed" to the followers of deism. The fact that many Christian's have different practices or even beliefs, does not mean that all are wrong. One might be correct.

Any goup that claims "reason" as their first principle but fails to grasp freshman logic is flawed and requires no additional scrutiny.

[wufan]

By the way, I watched those videos, and as a scientist and Christian, I found that I felt the exact same way and I have also made similar arguments. Unfortunately, I am not nearly as articulate.

[SB Shock]

SB, you are quoting the "facts," probably quite correctly as understood by you denomination. However, I believe that baptism is a necessary, but not sufficient condition in many denominations.

You are either saved by faith, or your not. If you struggle with this concept then you need to go study what Paul said in 1 Cor where "that he came to preach the gospel, not to baptize".

I don't expect you to take my word for it - you should dive in to the bible and study it for yourself. There are plenty of apologetic out there that will lay the scripture out much better than I can to show that baptism is not necessary for salvation.

Also, some Christian denominations do not believe that Jesus was God, but the son of God and a man. That he achieved perfection on Earth and died for their sins.

So you don't believe Jesus was God?

Please list a Christian denomination that does not believe that Jesus was God.

[BOBB]

SB, you are quoting the "facts," probably quite correctly as understood by you denomination. However, I believe that baptism is a necessary, but not sufficient condition in many denominations.

You are either saved by faith, or your not.

Also, some Christian denominations do not believe that Jesus was God, but the son of God and a man. That he achieved perfection on Earth and died for their sins.

So you don't believe Jesus was God? Please list a Christian denomination that does not believe that Jesus was not God.

Mormons. Jehovah's Witness. Many Pentecostal Sects.

[SB Shock]

SB, you are quoting the "facts," probably quite correctly as understood by you denomination. However, I believe that baptism is a necessary, but not sufficient condition in many denominations.

You are either saved by faith, or your not.

Also, some Christian denominations do not believe that Jesus was God, but the son of God and a man. That he achieved perfection on Earth and died for their sins.

So you don't believe Jesus was God? Please list a Christian denomination that does not believe that Jesus was not God.

Mormons. Jehovah's Witness. Many Pentecostal Sects.

There is your problem -Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons are not Christians and you do a disservice to the Pentecosts by lumping them with cults.

2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or [if] you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!

Matthew 24:5 For many will come in my name saying "I am the Christ, and will will deceive many

The basic tenets I laid out are not from me or from my denomination but are from God because they come from scripture.

John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1. Revelation 4:8

2. Romans 3:23

3. Roman 6:23

4. John 3:16,

5. Roman 5:8

6. Act 16:31, 1 Cor 15:3-4

If you deny that Jesus was God then you are need to talk to God because Jesus said "I am"

John 6:51
John 8:12
John 8:23
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."

John 10:9
John 10:11
John 10:36
John 11:25
John 14:6: Jesus said to him, "I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 15:1


J

[Kung Wu]

SB,

Paine is challenging the authority of the Bible itself. You are caught in the circular argument trap of using the Bible to prove the Bible.

There are compelling arguments to make, especially against Deists, but you are using the wrong tactic IMHO.

[wufan]

SB, I think it's great that you have such faith. No need to get into name calling. Mormons, and JWs are known by the more PC term of "non-trinitarian" Christians. The fact that you don't recognize them doesn't change the fact that they are generally considered Christian.

Also, the deist has started his argument by rejecting the Bible and using the differences of denominations as proof that it is incorrect. You are using the Bible to prove your denomination correct. That won't get you anywhere. You need to start on common groung, i.e. There is a God.

[BOBB]

SB, I'm not telling you that your faith's interpretation of scripture is wrong. Just that there are those that consider themselves Christians that have a different interpretation. This will be the last I say on the matter as it's clear I am upsetting you.

How's the old saying go? "Never discuss religion on the politics forum of a basketball board!"

[SB Shock]

SB,

Paine is challenging the authority of the Bible itself. You are caught in the circular argument trap of using the Bible to prove the Bible.

There are compelling arguments to make, especially against Deists, but you are using the wrong tactic IMHO.

I agree. Ultimately it come down to faith. You are never going to debate someone to faith, but it is a conviction of the holy spirit.