Privitization of Education.

[wsushox1]

What's the benefit of this?

[kcshocker11]

aint gonna happen , dont waste time worrying about it

[ABC]

It is already happening, and will probably escalate.

[Kung Wu]

Re: Privitization of Education.

What's the benefit of this?

Off the cuff ...

1) Instead of tax money covering schools going to the federal government and then being dispersed disproportionally back to the states (with enormous amounts of wasted overhead), the money will have never left the state and states with successful models will not be subsidizing schools with corrupt and broken systems.

2) An extension of 1) .. the money to fund a school will come directly from the immediate locality of the school and stay there. Again benefiting local systems that adopt workable solutions and putting pressure on broken/corrupt systems to get their act together.

3) Private schools can hire whoever they want to teach their classes and coach their students. For example: a Chemistry professor from the local university could teach part time at the local high-school without unions putting restrictions around the hiring process trying to prevent it. Would you rather have a Chemistry professor teaching your student Chemistry or a kid out of college with a degree in eduction teaching your kid Chemistry?

4) Private schools promote and terminate employees based on performance. Teachers in heavily unionized areas have the luxury of having the unions fight performance based salaries every step of the way.

There are other arguments but I am fuzzy this morning.

[wufan]

Re: Privitization of Education.

What's the benefit of this?

Off the cuff ...

1) Instead of tax money covering schools going to the federal government and then being dispersed disproportionally back to the states (with enormous amounts of wasted overhead), the money will have never left the state and states with successful models will not be subsidizing schools with corrupt and broken systems.

2) An extension of 1) .. the money to fund a school will come directly from the immediate locality of the school and stay there. Again benefiting local systems that adopt workable solutions and putting pressure on broken/corrupt systems to get their act together.

3) Private schools can hire whoever they want to teach their classes and coach their students. For example: a Chemistry professor from the local university could teach part time at the local high-school without unions putting restrictions around the hiring process trying to prevent it. Would you rather have a Chemistry professor teaching your student Chemistry or a kid out of college with a degree in eduction teaching your kid Chemistry?

4) Private schools promote and terminate employees based on performance. Teachers in heavily unionized areas have the luxury of having the unions fight performance based salaries every step of the way.

There are other arguments but I am fuzzy this morning.

I like this idea in general, but I see problems. The main issue I see is that schools in poor districts would have disproportionately poor schools, hence lessening the opportunity for poor children to succeed. I would rather see a county lead system in which all funds for the schools were lead by the local school board. All taxes/revenues collected would be distributed equally within the county. A small state tax would be levied in order to provide for counties that were unable to provide for themselves (probably not much of a problem in Kansas, but it certainly could be in other states).

[RoyalShock]

I don't know if privitization would lead to this, but I'm taking the opportunity to rant a bit.

1. We must get the federal government out of education. Besides the fact that it makes local control a fallacy, this country is far too big for one-size-fits-all education.

2. The current mold of high school being a feeder for college could be broken so that kids who know they want to be welders, carpenters, machinists, truck drivers or electricians could begin preparing for that in high school, instead of being forced to take four full years of math and English. 80+% of students get college degrees, who the heck is going to be left to actually manufacture goods, get them where they need to go and keep them maintained?

3. Competition is good.

4. I don't think taxation for education should go away, but a voucher system would allow schools to privatize and the poor/inner city kids can still get an education in a system that has competition, so they don't get the shaft. Imagine if poor kids who can't afford college or specialized vo-tech training after high school could get much of that before graduating.

[Maggie]

I don't know if privitization would lead to this, but I'm taking the opportunity to rant a bit.

1. We must get the federal government out of education. Besides the fact that it makes local control a fallacy, this country is far too big for one-size-fits-all education.

2. The current mold of high school being a feeder for college could be broken so that kids who know they want to be welders, carpenters, machinists, truck drivers or electricians could begin preparing for that in high school, instead of being forced to take four full years of math and English. 80+% of students get college degrees, who the heck is going to be left to actually manufacture goods, get them where they need to go and keep them maintained?

3. Competition is good.

4. I don't think taxation for education should go away, but a voucher system would allow schools to privatize and the poor/inner city kids can still get an education in a system that has competition, so they don't get the shaft. Imagine if poor kids who can't afford college or specialized vo-tech training after high school could get much of that before graduating.

:good:

[ShockTalk]

This has nothing to do directly with privitization of schools, but one of the problems is the large number of drop-outs. If you have not completed at least a high school education, including the type in Royal's #2 point, you will be going almost no where.

At one time, many kids that didn't finish HS, worked on, then took over their father's farm, went to work in manufacturing, were taught a trade by a family member, or went into the military (you need to complete HS for that now). Those options are getting fewer and fewer, while, I believe, drop-out rates are getting higher. No picture needs to be drawn as to all the problems this causes.

[Ixiah]

I don't know if privitization would lead to this, but I'm taking the opportunity to rant a bit.

1. We must get the federal government out of education. Besides the fact that it makes local control a fallacy, this country is far too big for one-size-fits-all education.

2. The current mold of high school being a feeder for college could be broken so that kids who know they want to be welders, carpenters, machinists, truck drivers or electricians could begin preparing for that in high school, instead of being forced to take four full years of math and English. 80+% of students get college degrees, who the heck is going to be left to actually manufacture goods, get them where they need to go and keep them maintained?

3. Competition is good.

4. I don't think taxation for education should go away, but a voucher system would allow schools to privatize and the poor/inner city kids can still get an education in a system that has competition, so they don't get the shaft. Imagine if poor kids who can't afford college or specialized vo-tech training after high school could get much of that before graduating.

I personally think the education system in public schools has gone downhill. I know someone who was offered his diploma if he would just attend school!

What is the solution? I welcome any discussion on it as my views are not set in stone. In regards to the points brought up:

1. The idea of not having the federal government involved in the $ I can understand but for them to not be involved in standards just does not seem to make sense. You MUST have comparability to evaluate performance. It just seems logical that one body draw up the minimum requirements (level of reading, writing, basic math, etc) for each grade. Trusting local bodies completely also seems a bit dubious. For example some districts are no longer teaching cursive writing. It is sad that some students will come out of public schools and not be able to read a copy of the constitution.

2. I kind of agree with this one. Perhaps something like Japan has where students have to pass entrance exams for high school would be beneficial. Those that want to be there would study for them and those that don't can start looking for work.

3. One issue I see with privitization of education is a problem you see in healthcare now. Private schools would take all the low maintenance students leaving public schools with all the problem children. It just makes financial sense for them. You would need a law similar to pre existing conditions in healthcare. I'm not sure about the wisdom of that.

4. One fear I have with the large use of vouchers is we will see education that is of low quality. We see it a lot now with college degrees such as university of phoenix.

I currently believe we are just throwing money at education and hoping it fixes itself. Instead, I say have national standards drawn up on the basics and ALL kids are tested.
School teachers would be evaluated based on student performance of their class(es). Good teachers could be given better pay and underperforming ones could be let go or moved to non-critical cousework which would not be tested. To low a student performance on an exam "could" be grounds for being held back and or not graduating. At least this way we would never give a highschool diploma to someone who could not read.

Anyone have another approach ??