Justice Kennedy Retiring

[jdmee]

..... And the thing that riles the base and is going to ensure he gets nominated is that he was accused of sexual assault by three different people? That's a pretty disheartening thing.

You know that part is disingenuous. No one is riled up because he was accused of sexual assault. It might be because of the vitriol that was thrown at him for accusations that were not only not corroborated by the people who were said to be there, but in most cases directly refuted by the same people.

Maybe the base is riled up because of the constantly moving goal posts. From the sexual assault, to about his college/high school alcohol, to words a 16 year old wrote in a year book.

But because he was accused of sexual assault, that is crazy.


Finally, I believe that he was clearly and easily going to be confirmed BEFORE being accused of sexual assault, probably with multiple democrat senators voting for his confirmation. I do not think he will be confirmed with the same ease now as before. How are the accusations ensuring his confirmation? If anything it has caused more doubt about his confirmation.

[jdshock]

You know that part is disingenuous. No one is riled up because he was accused of sexual assault. It might be because of the vitriol that was thrown at him for accusations that were not only not corroborated by the people who were said to be there, but in most cases directly refuted by the same people.

I guess that's my point, though. People are ready to go to battle to get this guy confirmed. Everyone is talking about it. It's way more of an issue than Gorsuch ever was. And it's because people view this as a referendum on #metoo. Even on this board, someone said if Kavanaugh is blocked no nominees are safe in the future and someone else edited it to say "no men are safe" or something ridiculous.

People were throwing vitriol at Dr. Blasey Ford, too. People are talking about Swetnick's other romantic involvements. People are laughing about the allegation made by Ramirez.

If this were some other allegation, weed or whatever it may be. If it were not a #metoo type claim, I do not believe people would be nearly as defensive of Kavanaugh. I've said it over and over again on here: we as a society don't know what to do with these types of allegations yet. And a lot of people on the right think the response should be to grind our heels in and say "without proof, this person is clearly a liar."

Maybe you view it just as referendum on Kavanaugh. But I think most people aren't viewing it that way. It's why people are saying stuff like "if he's blocked, no man is safe." It's because they view this as the hill that's worth dying on to try to defeat the #metoo movement. And that has got people really, really energized in favor of his defense. And it definitely has people energized in opposition too, by the way. I keep saying, but I think there are a lot of other issues that are more clear cut that I think liberals should be focused on.

[Shockm]

No. This is not a referendum on Me Too. If Kavanaugh was viewed to be for Abortion, there would have been no opposition. The other Party needs to “fight” using the same methods. Pay protesters and scorch the nominee.

[ShockerPrez]

I always associated MeToo with the sort of tolerated sexual advances toward underling women by powerful men. BKs alleged offenses are from peers. I don't associate it to metoo at all. But I guess I may be wrong.

[wufan]

I think #metoo is important because it highlights real abuse that many women face on a regular basis. The problem with #metoo is that some of the participants conflated awkward courting moments with forced rape claims. The fact that the vast majority never named the offender was a problem. Similarly, #believeallwomen was a threat to our institution of presumed innocence.

I think this, like black lives matter and intersectionality is a conflation of good ideas with political dogma. That combination is what causes the social Cold War and segregated citizens of the greatest civilization in history.

[Kung Wu]

People are ready to go to battle to get this guy confirmed. Everyone is talking about it. ... And it's because people view this as a referendum on #metoo.

..

People were throwing vitriol at Dr. Blasey Ford, too. People are talking about Swetnick's other romantic involvements. People are laughing about the allegation made by Ramirez.

If this were some other allegation, weed or whatever it may be. If it were not a #metoo type claim, I do not believe people would be nearly as defensive of Kavanaugh. I've said it over and over again on here: we as a society don't know what to do with these types of allegations yet. And a lot of people on the right think the response should be to grind our heels in and say "without proof, this person is clearly a liar."

Maybe you view it just as referendum on Kavanaugh. But I think most people aren't viewing it that way. It's why people are saying stuff like "if he's blocked, no man is safe." It's because they view this as the hill that's worth dying on to try to defeat the #metoo movement. And that has got people really, really energized in favor of his defense. And it definitely has people energized in opposition too, by the way. I keep saying, but I think there are a lot of other issues that are more clear cut that I think liberals should be focused on.

A leftist psych major accuses a high school kid of sexual abuse, and claims that the acts she described have screwed her life up completely. But she has no memory of where, when, etc. The repercussions she claims she has, do not meet the severity of the events that she describes -- which makes her not believable. I could have stopped at psych major.

Another leftist psych major (at the time), accuses a college kid of wagging his weenie at a private party of "adults". This is the only one that is believable to me, until I remember "leftist psych major". Then I remember that Obama snorted the heck out of cocaine in college and got a pass so then I think ... I don't think I care if he did what she said. If he wagged his weenie or didn't at a party -- I just don't care. Goofballing around with your tally whacker out at a private college party consistent of drinking "adults" doesn't make you unfit for office 30+ years later, if snorting some blow doesn't make you unfit for President 20+ years later.

Then a complete looney tunes ding bat accuses Kavanaugh in participating in gang rape. When you look into Ding Bat's life, you have to laugh that the media was duped by this one. Then again they didn't care, it helped their narrative.

Is this really blow back against the #metoo moment? One can hope, it's desperately needed.

[ShockTalk]

I probably should steer clear of this, but here goes:

I guess that's my point, though. People are ready to go to battle to get this guy confirmed. Everyone is talking about it. It's way more of an issue than Gorsuch ever was. And it's because people view this as a referendum on #metoo. Even on this board, someone said if Kavanaugh is blocked no nominees are safe in the future and someone else edited it to say "no men are safe" or something ridiculous.

Everyone is talking about it because you cannot avoid it....morning news shows, Hollywood talk shows, noon news shows, evening news, nighttime talk shows, (all of the previous, mostly from those left of the aisle), internet, on and on. How could anyone avoid it! I do not believe it is a referendum on (or importance of) #metoo, but it is time for anyone that has been truly assaulted or worse in the past to come out with it. We cannot go on ad infinitum about this. It's out there NOW. The longer one says nothing and waits for "in the future", the less believable it becomes, particularly when going back 30+ years...worse, into 30+ years during school years. It's like "no Hollywood hopeful allowed sexual favors...ever". No young girl allowed sexual favors at a drunken party....ever.... or in going after her dream guy....ever. The longer it goes on, the farther back it goes, and the younger it goes, the more "gray" the claim becomes. Right or wrong, that's just the way it is. Hopeful, we have all learned and grown from the #metoo movement. It is very important.

People were throwing vitriol at Dr. Blasey Ford, too. People are talking about Swetnick's other romantic involvements. People are laughing about the allegation made by Ramirez.

Ummm, 15, drinking, and at a frat party. Whether it happened or not, that's pretty dumb for a smart young person. Oh, and Kavanaugh wasn't the only one from a " mostly white, privileged schooling" and it's "activities". Reasons Swetnick is questionable.

If this were some other allegation, weed or whatever it may be. If it were not a #metoo type claim, I do not believe people would be nearly as defensive of Kavanaugh. I've said it over and over again on here: we as a society don't know what to do with these types of allegations yet. And a lot of people on the right think the response should be to grind our heels in and say "without proof, this person is clearly a liar."

Totally agree with this part of your statement. However, growing up in a society that you are told from little up "innocent until proven guilty" is different than saying the accuser is a liar, by a long shot.

Maybe you view it just as referendum on Kavanaugh. But I think most people aren't viewing it that way. It's why people are saying stuff like "if he's blocked, no man is safe." It's because they view this as the hill that's worth dying on to try to defeat the #metoo movement. And that has got people really, really energized in favor of his defense. And it definitely has people energized in opposition too, by the way. I keep saying, but I think there are a lot of other issues that are more clear cut that I think liberals should be focused on.

Personally, I view it as a referendum on dirty political tactics, on both sides. Whether it's politicians or Hollywood types taking advantage of their visibility and their "I know more than you do attitude". "News" outlets that are really editorial outlets.

This is a country that needs to find middle ground. The chasm is widening.

[ShockTalk]

Interesting. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/for-once-i’m-grateful-for-trump/ar-BBNUIj1?ocid=spartanntp

[jdmee]

Not sure I would say it is a referendum on the #metoo movement, but on maybe parts of the #metoo movement.

I would hope that no one would be discouraging anybody who is a victim of a sexual assault to not speak out. I would hope everyone would agree that is a positive of the movement. The encouragement and support given that you are not the only one and you can speak out and be believed.

It has also opened up the dialog of how to treat each others. It has opened up the dialog to teach guys/gals it is not OK to treat someone as an object, to push beyond acceptable limits, and to create a dialog of what are acceptable limits. That no means no, that just because she comes to your room does not mean she is giving you her consent. ...



I do think it is a referendum on the next part of the #metoo movement. That the accuser is always to be believed. That just because someone accuses you of a sexual assault that you cannot and should not be able to defend yourself. I think that before you destroy a person's life/career/goals that more than just an accusation should take place. In all these cases we are learning that the accusation is all there is. There is a backlash against "Always believe the woman", "Men should just shut up", ....



I do believe that if one of the people who Dr Ford listed as being present would have come out and told something that would have gave some corroboration to her story we would not be talking about the confirmation of BK. For example, if her friend would have said something along the lines of "Yes, there was a party that Dr Ford went upstairs and came down later and said we needed to leave. She did not ever elaborate why, and I can not say what happened when she went upstairs." or even a "She left and didn't tell me why", this would have been enough, however we have "I have not met BK and do not know of the party she is talking about."

[Shockm]

Another telling fact regarding Dr. Ford is that she’s not giving permission to view her psychologists notes. When you get into regained memories that have no one to cooberate the facts, hard questions are not just warranted but expected.

[WuDrWu]

This is a country that needs to find middle ground. The chasm is widening.

#Truth

Just look at all this nonsense...the focus is on the worst, not the real worst but the implied worst or the possible worst.

One of the accusers said "I can't sit here and say he (Kavanaugh) did this, but if he did, he cannot be allowed to be on the Court!"

Seriously? That's given a stage on "news"? Maybe the burden is on us to stop paying attention but I'm afraid that ship sailed long long ago.

[jdshock]

This is a country that needs to find middle ground. The chasm is widening.

But what is the specific middle ground you're proposing here? For me, the extreme end on the liberal side is saying Kavanaugh needs to lose his current seat because he perjured himself. Does that mean the extreme end on the conservative side is that Kavanaugh needs to be confirmed without this most recent FBI investigation? So what's the middle ground? Confirm him after an investigation? Confirm some other equally conservative person? Two weeks ago, and I don't think it could be done anymore, I think a middle ground that should've pleased everyone would've been to withdraw Kavanaugh and name someone else with a schedule in place to get the new person confirmed prior to the election.

And what about on other issues? What's the middle ground on single payer healthcare? On issues of race? It's easy to say "we just need more people to come to the middle and have common ground" when you think you're the reasonable person. And no one thinks they're not the reasonable person. Even here, you're saying it's a referendum on dirty political tricks on both sides. But that's obviously not the case. If Kavanaugh gets confirmed, no republicans are going to be like "dang, we really shouldn't have held that Scalia seat open for a year since clearly people don't like political tricks."

Add to that, sometimes the middle isn't where we need to be as a society. What's the middle ground if we're talking about negotiating with Hitler? I believe there are some instances in which ethically you cannot compromise even a little. I would imagine most Republicans feel that way about abortion. I imagine lots of people think our current system is a good "middle ground" in terms of abortion. It's a system that allows regulation after certain points during pregnancies but it also offers rights to women, etc. But there are many on the right who think, ethically, there is no middle ground besides saying it just needs to be illegal across the board.

[WuDrWu]

Did you just really, vaguely, try to equate Hitler to Kavanaugh? THAT is exactly why the left can't be trusted, fake news is everywhere, and a lot of the country believe the GOP "cling to their bible and guns".

[jdshock]

WuDrWu - not even a little bit. I'm saying Hitler is an example of an individual where we cannot accept a middle ground. I'm using an extreme example because it's one of the few "middle ground" things we can all agree on. Or... so I thought.

I'm sure a liberal could look at my post and assume I'm comparing abortion to Hitler too. Your knee-jerk "oh, JD must be saying Kavanaugh is Hitler!" is much, much worse for finding middle ground than anything I've done on here. This board has run just about every liberal off of the politics section, and you think the left is solely responsible for there not being middle ground?

Edit number 5 or something: I just keep getting more frustrated by your post here, doc. I started my post by literally saying "here are a couple of areas that I view as middle ground regarding Kavanaugh." And I finish my post by saying there are some instances in which you shouldn't accept a middle ground (e.g., Hitler). So... in what world am I saying Kavanaugh is like that since I explicitly was asking about middle grounds? Try to have a least a modicum of respect for my opinions on here and actually read what I'm saying. I did NOT compare Kavanaugh to Hitler.

[shockfan89_]

To me the extreme right is expecting 100-0 confirmation, middle ground would be 60 or 70 votes for confirmation and extreme liberal is what we have today. This vote was going to be 51-49 even before any of these allegations surfaced. That is the part that frustrates me.

Trump won, Trump is POTUS, this is year 2 of his first term, this is a judge who has been on the DC Court of Appeals for the past 12 years and I am not aware that any of his rulings were called into question. The questions were from his time investigating Clinton when he was just out of law school, and when he worked for the Bush admin. Just bogus BS!!!

[C0|dB|00ded]

I gotta admit, the good guys pulled it off. I was on record as saying that Kavanaugh should have been dumped the moment his Yale "buddies" started trashing him. Take that fact along with the fudging on some off-color juvenile dialogue and I figured the nominee's reputation had been damaged beyond repair. And why cling to Brett when you have an entire list of good candidates below him waiting to be fast-tracked.

Trump and his boys stood firm behind Kavanaugh when it was very politically risky to do so. For that, Brett owes them all a beer...

I'm just very thankful we have adults running the show in our party. The AMERICAN process was followed and a good man was found to be innocent.


T


...:cool:

[WuDrWu]

With Heidi Heitkamp's "no vote" it would appear that the Dems will have lost ND. She was falling further behind her GOP opponent anyway, but this should signal the end of that race.

42 + MS1 MS2 NE WY UT & ND and the GOP need only 2 more to hold the Senate. Perhaps there will be a blue wave in Congress, but it's looking more and more like the GOP will pick up seats in the Senate than lose them. Something, frankly, they'll need to do as they defend pluralities for the following 2 election cycles.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Another telling fact regarding Dr. Ford is that she’s not giving permission to view her psychologists notes. When you get into regained memories that have no one to cooberate the facts, hard questions are not just warranted but expected.

I thought early on the reason the Dems held onto the Ford complaint was because they thought it was highly suspicious. Once her situation was scrubbed and the story straightened (as good as it could be), they went forward with both guns blazing. They knew the late submission would look political, but what they didn't know was exactly how much traction it would get them. It got them a helluva lot! NEVER underestimate SJW/Snowflake nation. They'll come up out of the basement for any political cause. It's their reason for being.

Knowing what we know now, Dr. Ford was not credible. As you said, there's a reason we don't have her therapy notes; there's a reason her entire social footprint and university curriculum vitae was scrubbed; there's a reason all her "witnesses" never saw a thing; there's a reason she added the "extra door" ERRRRRRR room to her house (and it wasn't Brett Kavanaugh); there's a reason her ex-boyfriend came forward and detailed accounts of Ford being perfectly comfortable flying around the Hawaiian islands in a prop plane, cheated on him and then continued to use his credit card for a year after they broke up lying about it until he threatened to file a fraud report, witnessed her coaching a friend on what to expect when submitting to a lie detector test.

Draw your own conclusions, but IMO, justice was served.

P.S. In case anybody is still crying over Ford's purity being "torn from her" at such an early age... she has a GoFundMe account with three quarters of a million sitting in it. I bet that, along with a likely fictional book deal will go a LONG way towards healing...

American politics, where everybody either wins or gets rich! Ain't it great!


T


...:cool:

[RoyalShock]

Fools and their money . . .

[WuDrWu]

That's unreal. There's another GoFundMe page that stopped last week with just over 200K. My goodness we're a stupid people.

By the way, anyone that threatened her should be punched in the teeth, at least, but given her ability to tell a story, has even one threat proven to be credible? Other than an angry twitter douche, has anyone actually threatened her? Should be fairly easy to track down the individual, if so.

[Kel Varnsen]

I hope Kavanaugh is on the court until he's 110 years old.

[C0|dB|00ded]

Liberals are rallying around the idea that his liver is likely shot from drinking so his tenure will be short. Yes, they are literally hoping that Kavanaugh dies.

Well I've got a response to that: I hope Roe V. Wade is overturned so all their sick little heads explode.


T


...:cool: