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A mass shooting by a right wing identitarian and one by a left winger fighting the patriarchy. The insurgent civil war seems to be starting.
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Livin the dream -
Why do you believe the one was a "left winger fighting the patriarchy?" I haven't seen anything that he posted a manifesto or anything. It doesn't mean he didn't, but what's your source?Originally posted by wufan View Post
Neither are representative of their "side" of the debate, but I certainly don't think you can draw the conclusions you're drawing if your only evidence is that the guy supported democrats on Twitter. The first guy literally wrote a manifesto to explain why he did it. The second one, you appear to be assuming that it relates to his political identity. Without further support, you might as well say it's because he's a man or because he's white or an Ohioan.
Edit to add: I find it incredibly dangerous to say things like "The insurgent civil war seems to be starting." At best, it furthers the divide in America. At worst, it incites violence. It's not grounded in reality, and it causes people to view the other side as the enemy. Not even just the enemy, but an enemy worth killing. It's honestly scary rhetoric, and there should be no place for it in civil discourse today.Last edited by jdshock; August 5, 2019, 02:08 PM.Comment
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Excuse my hesitation to take you on your word when the overwhelming majority of the left ignored the fact that the Pulse nightclub shooter said that the reason for the shooting was Islam, gave credit to ISIS, and praised Allah on his phone call to police.
So- to be clear- Islam was to blame for the Pulse nightclub shooting, since you're convinced by stated motive? -
WichitaStateGuy - I'm just not sure we're communicating well, and that's fine, so this will probably be my last response on the subject. It feels like a waste of time at this point.
No. "Islam" is not "to blame" for the Pulse night club shooting. His MOTIVE was related to Islam. The shooter is "to blame."
If I write out a letter, and it says "@WichitaStateGuy was mean to me on Shockernet, so I'm going to rob a bunch of banks to fund my revenge plot." You're not to blame for my acts, even though my motive was related to you. The El Paso guy's motive was related to right wing beliefs on immigration. That doesn't mean the GOP or Trump are directly to blame for the killing. It just means they were the dude's motive.
These events do absolutely raise questions that should be asked. In my hypothetical, you should probably say "dang, was I mean to JD on shockernet?" No, and an honest reflection of your actions should fully exonerate you. In the Pulse example, society should ask whether Islam fosters an anti-LGBT environment. In many ways, the answer is yes. In the El Paso example, we should ask whether Trump's rhetoric or the GOP stance on immigration is fostering an anti-immigrant attitude which could create more violence. It doesn't mean we can pin the blame on Islam, nor does it mean we can pin the blame on Trump. But we should be asking these questions.
But... and this is incredibly important... literally none of this has anything to do with my first post. wufan appears to be arguing that El Paso was done by a right winger for right winger reasons and that Dayton was done by a leftist for leftist reasons. I'm just saying we have literally no understanding of the Dayton guy's motives and that it's silly to act like we're in a civil war. -
I think you're paying lip service to your obvious left-wing tendencies. I highly doubt that one day after the Pulse shooting, you were seriously reflecting on Islam's teaching on LGBTQ+.
I do think your answer was intellectually honest, however, slightly misguided. Unreasonable people that do unreasonable things shouldn't be allowed to have their motive dominate the principle we all seem to unanimously agree on, namely, "The shooter is 'to blame.'" Mental illness, lack of fathers, etc should be dominating the headlines far more than whatever reason any murderer provides.
I liked your response, though. It was reasonable and well thought out. Kudos.
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What I wish, is that when one of these nutjobs decides to voice their displeasure with firearms that they would do so against someone other than innocent, uninvolved civilians.
I propose that we legalize dueling in America again and set up small arenas all across the country whereby aggrieved parties may seek out an opponent for which they may release their angst.
T
...:cool:Comment
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Fair point of clarification. The Dayton shooter has no released motive, and I have no idea why he did what he did. He was fighting the patriarchy on Twitter and was a left wing ideologue. That’s a verifiable fact. That may have nothing to do with his motive, and I obviously implied that it did. I should not have implied that his political leanings were his motive.Originally posted by jdshock View Post
Additionally, these are lone wolves, not insurgent groups, so yes, the narrative is hyperbolic.
As to the dangerous incitement of my words; I would not use that language in a public setting, but find it to be topically suited amongst friends on this forum. I don’t find the opposition to be my enemy (nor my ally), but rather fellow Americans that want the same thing I want; Peace and prosperity. We having differing views on how to achieve that end.Last edited by wufan; August 5, 2019, 07:18 PM.Livin the dreamComment
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Originally posted by jdshock View Post
I've edited your quote slightly so you would have a different perspective on the reality of the current -ahem- "political climate."
You don't think cnn (et. al.) is being irresponsible and reckless in their "rhetoric?" It's 2016 all over again, as it appears the hot-button debate will not be wages and jobs with the dems., but that their opponent (now President) is a bigoted deceiver who supports the genocide of "brown-skinned" people. That's not a stretch to believe that that will be one of their, if not the, primary campaign "talking points." From. All. Of. Them (it's obviously an all-in policy). That's rather divisive to any sane person. No? It's approaching the point of no return. M. McConnell isn't even safe in his own home. But nah, it's the Presidents' fault.
Stop the hate before it's too late.
See jd? There's two sides this story.
#blameFoxNews my a**
P.S.- isn't this little girl just a doll:
mitch.jpgLast edited by ShockingButTrue; August 6, 2019, 01:07 PM.Comment
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...Originally posted by jdshock View Post
That's "only" supporting Democrats?!Conner Betts the Dayton, Ohio mass shooter, was a self-described “leftist,” who wrote that he would happily vote for Democrat Elizabeth Warren, praised Satan, was upset about the 2016 presidential election results, and added, “I want socialism, and i’ll not wait for the idiots to finally come round to understanding.”
That's simply supporting Democrats?!?“Kill every fascist,” Betts tweeted a year ago, commenting on the anniversary of the Charlottesville far-right rally.
Sorta turns out that your social media record can be an implicit manifesto of sorts, in and of itself.Betts’ Twitter profile read, “he/him / anime fan / metalhead / leftist / i’m going to hell and i’m not coming back.”Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!Comment
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The word "only" modifies the word "evidence," not "supporting" so I'm not entirely sure what your first point means.
It is entirely possible that it will come out that his motive was related to his political identity. The victims and the location of the incident wouldn't really support that finding, but we do not know that to be the case at this point in time. Police are also admitting the motive is unclear at this point in time. The dude had a "rape list" of women he wanted to rape. That doesn't seem like a simpler dot to connect?
Honestly, what's your issue here? Wufan came around and admitted he shouldn't have acted like his political identity was the motive.
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When your ideology blames everyone but an individual for ones lot in life and actions, there has to be an effort to assign blame. Democrat leftists will always blame a political opponent because their only reason for being is political. They have no life. Aren't happy about anything. And are incapabale of accepting the underlying fact that this world and a large portion of people who inhabit it are not pleasant.
Western society led by the U.S. has done a pretty effing fantastic job at making this world not suck so bad. But even with that, bad things happen. Leftists, who yearn for power will exploit the fact that 90% of the time the U.S. is awesome. And people will take it for granted.
Most people dont want to see anyone suffer at all and want the best for everyone. But thats not possible. The best we can do is make life good for the most people possible, and accept bad things like adults. Cause the world isca harsh place. And people suck.
I hate all the bullshit about this and that person said this so they are responsible. Bullshit."When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!Comment
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While it is important to have leaders that can deliver inspiration to a country, there is part of me that thinks: The fact that our first instinct is toward politicians makes me think we already lost the soul of the country."When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!Comment
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The sooner we stop idolizing these people and agree they are all full of ****, the better.
Trump, full of ****.
AOC, full of ****.
All the Dem candidates for president, full of ****.
Ted Cruz, full of ****.
All of them dont care where their politics lie. Full of ****.
Now. Once that is agreed, we can look at what power we entrust to them.
Remember, they're all full of ****. I recommend as little as possible."When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!Comment
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Apologies for the rant. This stuff just bugs the hell out of me. These selfish snakes stealing the camera to virtue signal compassion and pander for money is disgusting."When life hands you lemons, make lemonade." Better have some sugar and water too, or else your lemonade will suck!Comment
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These shootings bug the hell out of me. There is a choice to be made between freedom and safety, and I chose freedom. I don’t like that I have to make that choice.Originally posted by ShockerPrez View PostLivin the dreamComment
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There lies the problem. A choice, but is it really ours to make or by those that benefit from times of fear and hateComment
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Kung Wu say, man who read woman like book, prefer braille!Comment
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Originally posted by ShockerPrez View Post
Have to agree with this 100%, because it's the closest to the truth.
There are white racists, there are blacks racists. There are racist republicans, there are racist democrats. Many asians are racist, and not just in China either. But. That. Is. NOT. A. Part. Of. The. Conversation.
Most of the time when the topic of "racism" comes up I tend to tune out. It devolves into finger pointing at one group (guess who?)*, and more often than not is a solution-less debate. Political correctness is just the floor level habitat of tyranny fast approaching. Trump did not create it. Look around.
* https://twitter.com/AOC/status/1159254426097467394 (unf******believable). Please someone say this is a phony account.
Last edited by ShockingButTrue; August 8, 2019, 08:54 AM.Comment
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There's your -ahem- "white supremacist" :beaten:Comment
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