The Media Bias

[ShockCrazy]

This has been discussed before on Shockernet. I won't speak to mental disability, but there has been an absolute explosion in disability in general. And that's an old article. The abusers have ruined it for the truly needy.

There are certainly abusers without doubt. But I also believe that Americans have this skewed perception that abuse is more rampant than it is(both for disability and welfare). This article really didn't posit the argument that fraud or abuse is rampant and really showed no arguments that it is happening. The only point was that it is growing, which is true, but that may or may not be a problem. Are we growing because an increase in issues? Is it fraud? Is it we are more accepting of issues being debilitating when before we didn't consider them so? Or more likely is it some combination of things? I think people always just look at people on disability with a sideways glance regardless, and it's viewed as this shameful thing that you can't provide for yourself or that you need assistance and that needs to stop.

[shocka khan]

I am a psychologist in Kansas and have had 1 request from an able body person with anxiety to help them get disability. So I don't think it happens as often as people assume and the psychologist doing the eval should be able to screen out people who are able to actually function. I would be okay with the eval every 5 years or so. In fact, some onsurance companies will require an eval for autism every 3 years in order to get services.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Here in Texas it is equally difficult, in fact, I believe we have the lowest rate of approval in the U.S. (or did until recently).

Kansas and Texas, however, may not be indicative of the national experience. I am suspecting (but not sure) it is far easier to apply and obtain these benefits on most states on the east coast and the west coast. I saw something a long time ago indicating that 95%+ of SSI cases in, I believe, are approved in New Jersey (or at least some jurisdiction), so I suspect (and I believe Kung Wu has posted) a link to information which documents some states may simply be rubber stamping these requests.

While I have sympathy for poor people, I started working part-time at age 14. I virtually worked full time all the way through college. I see people with Down's Syndrome holding down jobs. I don't for the life of me understand why someone would have a problem with the idea that all able-bodied people should not try to have a job and contribute to our society.

I also believe the working poor deserve more benefits than those individuals who get government handouts, whether they deserve them or not. This encourages the poor to try to do what they can to work and be productive members of society.

[shocka khan]

There will be abuses in anything and everything. I hear a lot of outcry about welfare mamas and able-bodied people sucking off the government teat. I don't hear nearly as much outcry when corporations do the same thing.

Mylan knowingly overcharged the government $1.27 billion for EpiPens that went to Medicaid recipients. They settled with Justice for $465 million. That's one company and one product, and that one product represents $800 million taken from taxpayer funds. That's the equivalent of a very large nbumber of welfare mamas and disability cheats.

Where's the outcry over corporate raids of Treasury and corporate benefits? A "fair and balanced" viewpoint would condemn both the welfare cheats and the corporate cheats. I am unable to detect that happening.

http://www.kansas.com/news/nation-wo...153872294.html

I have railed on here at length about government subsidization of big business. Some conservatives agree with me (and the ones who did surprised me) and some didn't.

Bottom line is government should not be handing out money with no strings to either able bodied people or any corporation.

Note I also have a problem with certain government contractors being made whole when they have cost over-runs and/or whose products don't work.

My exhibit #1 would be the Boeing contract for the border wall under the Bush administration. If Boeing made a bad business decision, they ought to have to suffer the consequences like most other companies who make bad business decisions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/15/us/politics/15fence.html

Why should Boeing be bailed out for bidding, winning and then not delivering according to the contract? Perhaps they deserve a partial payment, but IIRC, they were pretty much covered for their stranded costs. This was a business risk Boeing took, no one twisted their arm to not submit this bid, and no one should be rushing to make them whole when their project goes sour. There should be accountability.

[wufan]

Good discussion! I'm against abuses of the welfare system and I'm against abuses by corporations. In my mind, those are equally bad things. Defining abuse is difficult because it takes two to play, the abuser and the aider. I do not believe that increasing taxes or regulations is a good way to curtail business practices, not do I believe that ending welfare is a good solution. Rather, I would point to increased competition to decrease abuses by companies and increased funding to working poor to encourage an improved standard.

[shocka khan]

Although I agree in principle with regulation (and therefore disagree somewhat with your statement regards regulation), here is a good example of why regulations need to be updated and reviewed:

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/hundreds-of-customers-complained-to-the-fcc-that-att-switched-their-data-plans

I'm sitting at home watching the news (I am working from home for the next week until my layoff becomes effective) and I noted a story on the local news about AT&T switching customers to more expensive plans without their consent.

Not only that, AT&T's standard contract requires customers submit to binding arbitration, where AT&T gets to select the arbiter, to settle disputes.

Note AT&T is not the only company doing this, but they do (at least according to the news report) have the highest rate of complaints.

Seems to me like AT&T should not get to choose a biased kangaroo court to hear legitimate consumer complaints. Seems to me like contract provisions like this border on being unconscionable because they effectively remove legal remedies and actually encourage the company to implement business practices that most people with an ounce of ethics would believe are shady.

I think we can both agree, wufan, that when a governmental entity subjects you to a compliance review, it should be fair and balanced with qualified personnel AND the reasons for the review should be transparent. If the governmental entity has a concern with compliance, it should be communicated. Lord knows they can indict and convict you for tampering with official documents (since you are submitting them to agents of the state) or falsifying a government document.

[WuDrWu]

By the nature of the beast, it's difficult to get accurate numbers on fraud. You only know what you catch, and I promise you, you aren't catching all of it.

It should be more difficult to obtain, not easier. I'm a guardian for more than one handicapped person. It takes about 3 seconds to eval them.

If you're capable of going downtown to fill out a form for disability, let's look a little deeper before you get signed up for life, renewable by a form that nobody really looks at.

In my line of work, I deal with a number of lower income folks. The numbers of people that are on disability that I know through them is astounding.

Also, anyone that knows me knows I'm not a big fan of so called recreational drugs. If I find out an acquaintance uses, chances are I won't be friends with them for long. I am literally stunned by the number of young people I've met that are on disability who smoke weed on a constant basis. I have no idea if they are trying to treat some kind of psychosis, if the weed is the problem, whatever. It's something terribly broken, in a variety of areas. And keep in mind, I go out of my way not to knowingly associate with people like that.

I'm not trying to provide numbers or stats. I don't think I'm an outlier of unluckiness. It's too easy to get disability. It pays too much, and way too many able-bodied people are taking advantage.

[ShockCrazy]

It should be more difficult to obtain, not easier. I'm a guardian for more than one handicapped person. It takes about 3 seconds to eval them.

Not knowing your situation is it possible that your specific circumstances affect this process and how long it takes(not saying that's a good thing or bad thing, nor do I know it's true just a thought).

In my line of work, I deal with a number of lower income folks. The numbers of people that are on disability that I know through them is astounding.

Should we draw some correlation or causation from this? I'm not sure, I mean are these people lower income because they are disabled or vice versa.

Also, anyone that knows me knows I'm not a big fan of so called recreational drugs. If I find out an acquaintance uses, chances are I won't be friends with them for long. I am literally stunned by the number of young people I've met that are on disability who smoke weed on a constant basis. I have no idea if they are trying to treat some kind of psychosis, if the weed is the problem, whatever. It's something terribly broken, in a variety of areas. And keep in mind, I go out of my way not to knowingly associate with people like that.

I think you are correlating things that may or may not be related, unnecessarily. Recreational behavior may not have to do with their disability and it seems unwise to really discern much from that. Perhaps the weed is self-treatment, perhaps it's the cause if their issues, or maybe it's a way for them to cope with other unrelated things waaaay too many factors to pass judgement.

[shocka khan]

[QUOTE=ShockCrazy;736810 I think you are correlating things that may or may not be related, unnecessarily. Recreational behavior may not have to do with their disability and it seems unwise to really discern much from that. Perhaps the weed is self-treatment, perhaps it's the cause if their issues, or maybe it's a way for them to cope with other unrelated things waaaay too many factors to pass judgement.[/QUOTE]

Although I totally agree with this thought, I will say the term he used, based on the quote you referenced, was 'constant use'. And I agree with him regards how fruitcake chronic pot smokers get. I have known of and seen how they behave.

But I do agree with you regards recreational use.

In many ways, pot can be like alcohol. Chronic use warps your brain (like the hallucinations alcoholics experience when they withdraw). And though pot is not physically addictive, it definitely can become a psychological crutch.

Pot, if it is ever totally legalized, is a lot like alcohol. When used in moderation, it can be helpful. When used continuously, it creates behavioral problems and can make you brain dead (i.e. loss of memory).

People who don't function, either emotionally or from a mental sharpness standpoint, are unemployable, so even though there may not be a direct link, there may be an indirect link, as my opinion is sitting around stoned out of your mind all the time is not conducive to being a productive member of society.

And the cycle is completed when the behavioral issues manifest themselves due to the overuse of pot. Sort of like how consequences are related to outcomes.

[ShockCrazy]

Although I totally agree with this thought, I will say the term he used, based on the quote you referenced, was 'constant use'. And I agree with him regards how fruitcake chronic pot smokers get. I have known of and seen how they behave.

But I do agree with you regards recreational use.

In many ways, pot can be like alcohol. Chronic use warps your brain (like the hallucinations alcoholics experience when they withdraw). And though pot is not physically addictive, it definitely can become a psychological crutch.

Pot, if it is ever totally legalized, is a lot like alcohol. When used in moderation, it can be helpful. When used continuously, it creates behavioral problems and can make you brain dead (i.e. loss of memory).

People who don't function, either emotionally or from a mental sharpness standpoint, are unemployable, so even though there may not be a direct link, there may be an indirect link, as my opinion is sitting around stoned out of your mind all the time is not conducive to being a productive member of society.

And the cycle is completed when the behavioral issues manifest themselves due to the overuse of pot. Sort of like how consequences are related to outcomes.

Oh certainly. I agree that chronic/addictive use is a problem regardless of substance or vice(gambling, sex, gaming, etc) and usually a symptom of other life issues and has little do with the vice of choice. I don't think there's a single person who develops an addiction to anything who thinks, gee I WANT to be addicted to that! So someone isn't low function because they are a stoner, yes that's the observable symptom, but it's due to whatever things in their life have created that dependency.

[ShockingButTrue]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4566964/Kathy-Griffin-claims-Trump-family-ruined-life.html

RESIST

[shocka khan]

You are part the problem. Nobody cares about idiot kathy griffin.

Don't feed the troll. He's doing this for the exact same reason Kathy Griffin did what she did. Don't feed him and he'll go away.

Or better yet, if you DO want to respond, be really obtuse, he's a little dull and it takes him awhile to figure out your point, but he does get it eventually.

[CBB_Fan]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ined-life.html

RESIST

It is amazing how a persecution complex can exist even when a party controls the Presidency, House, Senate, Supreme Court, 70 of 100 State houses, and 33 governor seats. This level of one party control is almost unprecedented. And yet despite all that, it is the almost completely powerless left that needs to be resisted.
And I'll remind you, Kathy Griffin lost her job and was forced to apologize for her act: "I beg for your forgiveness. I went too far," she said in a video posted to Instagram late Tuesday. "I made a mistake and I was wrong."


And while it was in extremely poor taste, she wasn't saying she literally wanted to kill Trump. In contrast ...

"Obama, he's a piece of ****. I told him to suck on my machine gun. Hey Hillary," he continued. "You might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless *****."

That was Ted Nugent. Ted Nugent, who was invited to the White House by the Trump administration. Ted Nugent, who claims to be a good guy and also said "Foreigners are assholes; foreigners are scum; I don't like 'em; I don't want 'em in this country; I don't want 'em selling me doughnuts; I don't want 'em pumping my gas ..."

Do you not see a disparity in the way the left and the right treat their radicals? Kathy Griffin may not work again, and certainly won't be headed to the White House. Ted Nugent on the other hand is somewhere between tolerated and celebrated by the right. I'm sure some on this forum in fact would nod their heads to some of his non-PC speak (see, 1., 2., 3. below):

1. "Slash the living hell out of the waste and corruption and the outrageous army of do-nothing bureaucrats. I would fire every government worker whose job I would deem to be redundant and wasteful. No able-bodied human being would ever get a handout again."

2. "I have obviously failed to galvanize and prod, if not shame enough Americans to be ever vigilant not to let a Chicago communist-raised, communist-educated, communist-nurtured subhuman mongrel like the ACORN community organizer gangster Barack Hussein Obama to weasel his way into the top office of authority in the United States of America."

3. "I would rather that [a victim of violent crime] in Massachusetts last month who was taking her daughter to soccer when they were carjacked by a recidivist maggot, who had been in the prison system all his life but was let out again because we feel sorry for him, maybe he had a bad childhood. Instead of her being hijacked and murdered, I'd rather she just shot the bastard dead... But in Massachusetts, somebody decided she can't do that. So she's dead. I would rather she was alive and the carjacker was dead."

[WuDrWu]

You are part the problem. Nobody cares about idiot kathy griffin.

Somebody cares, because she's on about every "news" site I see. Oh, and now she's claiming to be the victim.

The far left, much more in control of the MSM than the far right, is pathological. Kathy forfeited her ability to make money by being moronic. It's nothing new, she's been acting like this for years. CNN liked her so much they hired her years ago. Imagine that. Being rewarded for her stupidity time after time after time, she continued to step out further on the ledge. She finally fell. Oh my gosh, she's sorry. (Not really but, you know) Oh, my apology didn't get my career back? Well then the response by the Trump family is overblown. And oh yeah, he said Megan Kelly bleeds, so that's it. I can't believe I'm being mistreated like this in front of my attorney who's going to sue everyone!!!! (fake cries).

She is one of the favorite faces of your left. Wear it.

[WuDrWu]

Generalizing me as a left or liberal when you dont know me is ridiculous. Kathy griffin is doing this for attention she is an annoying little ****. Nobody on here was upset when trump supporters had hillarys head on a stick, hillary with an target on her etc. Things that insinuate violence against anyone is gross and horrible. You can't shame one and not shame the other.

I don't remember any celebrities working major news outlets promoting Hillary's head on a stick, or with her in crosshairs photos. In fact I don't remember any of that, but I'm sure somewhere it existed. I remember "Lock her up" which doesn't seem unreasonable given her transgressions.

I think we can agree that ANYONE portraying our President in that manner (frankly any American) is deplorable (I didn't intend for that to be funny).

But if you can't differentiate between a rogue nutjob with a sign and someone like Kathy Griffin who until 48 hours ago was at least a B list celebrity employed by CNN, then there's really very little hope for meaningful discussion. The 2 aren't close to being the same. Now, 4 years ago, or ever.

[ShockingButTrue]

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