Face the Nation

[Kung Wu]

This is beyond socialism, isn't it?

No, Obamacare is socialism.

Well centralized price control of "the market" (in this case health insurance) is indeed socialism: An insurance mandate coupled with devastating language to cause all private insurance carriers to ultimately fail -- by having a government czar dictating prices and allowed services.

However this goes one step further and 1) puts pols in the position to decide on who gets healthcare and 2) denies the physician the freedom to practice with an individual privately. That's the state directly controlling the physicians themselves and politicizing the market, not just setting price controls. That's central planning and really smells like communism. But I'll admit I'm stupid on this stuff. At the very least this is scary-bad stuff going on right here.

[Maggie]

This is beyond socialism, isn't it?

No, Obamacare is socialism.

Well centralized price control of "the market" (in this case health insurance) is indeed socialism: An insurance mandate coupled with devastating language to cause all private insurance carriers to ultimately fail -- by having a government czar dictating prices and allowed services.

However this goes one step further and 1) puts pols in the position to decide on who gets healthcare and 2) denies the physician the freedom to practice with an individual privately. That's the state directly controlling the physicians themselves and politicizing the market, not just setting price controls. That's central planning and really smells like communism. But I'll admit I'm stupid on this stuff. At the very least this is scary-bad stuff going on right here.

A short answer: Communism, socialism, fascism, “liberalism”, “progressivism”, are basically the same - at a root level (each, however, goes about attempting to secure its goals in different ways – depending on the location, political climate, etc.). Central planning (the five-year plan, for example, – why is it always five years?) is the goal of all five. It starts with top down economics. It assumes that the education and "wisdom" of a few should enable them to dictate to the many.

By the way, our public education system is also socialist.

[engrshock]

So are our highway and road systems, most arenas, national park, state park and library systems, many museums (arts, historical and science), most mass transit etc.

All roads should become toll roads. Truckers and farmers that tear up the roads the most should be paying more in tolls.

Lets just cut spending and let all users pay for their own use of these things. If you never go to a national park or even a state or municipal park, library or museum then why pay for it.

Get rid of public schools and let each parent pay for their own kids educational costs each year. If you can't afford it, too bad. We need gas station attendants and burger flippers.

[Maggie]

So are our highway and road systems, most arenas, national park, state park and library systems, many museums (arts, historical and science), most mass transit etc.

All roads should become toll roads. Truckers and farmers that tear up the roads the most should be paying more in tolls.

Lets just cut spending and let all users pay for their own use of these things. If you never go to a national park or even a state or municipal park, library or museum then why pay for it.

Get rid of public schools and let each parent pay for their own kids educational costs each year. If you can't afford it, too bad. We need gas station attendants and burger flippers.

Please, don't stop - write on....

[wufan]

By the way, our public education system is also socialist.

I've always agreed with this.

[wufan]

So are our highway and road systems, most arenas, national park, state park and library systems, many museums (arts, historical and science), most mass transit etc.

Roads and most arenas are usually voted on by the public. Raise taxes to build a toll road or arena with the understanding that the new construction is beneficial to the community. This is a good small government type of legislation in which the people decide what is best for them. Libraries were mainly built by the Rockefellers (not the national gov) and are mainly supported by local tax levies voted on by the people that receive the most good from the services. More good small government legislation. Museums and National Parks are often lobbied for by special interest groups and they use slush fund grants to start up and keep going. That equals BAD legislation.

All roads should become toll roads. Truckers and farmers that tear up the roads the most should be paying more in tolls.

If taxes collected from the sale of gasoline were solely used on road construction and maintenance for the county in which the gas was purchased, you would never have to worry about going over budget. People that use the road the most pay the most taxes...This scenerio works well in almost every setting. Alcohol and Tobacco taxes should be used to fund medicare/medicaid

Lets just cut spending and let all users pay for their own use of these things. If you never go to a national park or even a state or municipal park, library or museum then why pay for it.

Yep, it's sort of like Disneyland!

Get rid of public schools and let each parent pay for their own kids educational costs each year. If you can't afford it, too bad. We need gas station attendants and burger flippers.

I disagree with this. A solid education founded in the core beliefs of the community were and are a very important part of the American Democracy/Republic. Reading, writing, arithmatic, science, history, government, and morality. These should be taught to all youths so that they have the OPPORTUNITY to succeed. As for higher education, I am for scholarship aid for underprivlidged and the availability of student loans. After that, it's up to the University to recruit via scholarships as it sees fit and the student to figure out how to pay for it if they don't fit into one of those scenerios.[/i]

[Maggie]

Every government undertaking engaged in the public provision of non-public goods is an instance of socialism, at the very least at a trivial level. But socialism of that sort is probably best described as welfare statism. As a practical matter all modern governments engage in this practice – that does not mean that every government is socialist, in a meaningful sense, or that it would make sense to describe every government that runs a public school or a state highway as socialist. These are questions of degree, and questions of judgment, and the answers to those questions will vary from case to case.