Shocker Football, BRING IT BACK

[Shirley Schmidt]

How about more discusson of this dead horse?

[vancedave56]

It needs to be done, but will it ever happen?

There were a lot of people (probably still are) that were negative on building the Arena, but I really believe it is a big plus.

Wichita is only as small as it wants to be.

The population of the area has doubled since the football program was kicked out the door.

There are plenty of people in the area with $$.

Who has the (foot)balls to do it?

[SB Shock]

It needs to be done, but will it ever happen?

There were a lot of people (probably still are) that were negative on building the Arena, but I really believe it is a big plus.

Wichita is only as small as it wants to be.

The population of the area has doubled since the football program was kicked out the door.

There are plenty of people in the area with $$.

Who has the (foot)balls to do it?

I'm really suprised it hasn't been. I heard that Schaus had a plan before he left to bring back football and left it with the new AD. He's still sitting on it for some reason. It had donors and plan for refurbishment of Cessna stadium and everything. I even heard they had Danny Ainge scouiting out some future head coaches.

[vancedave56]

It needs to be done, but will it ever happen?

There were a lot of people (probably still are) that were negative on building the Arena, but I really believe it is a big plus.

Wichita is only as small as it wants to be.

The population of the area has doubled since the football program was kicked out the door.

There are plenty of people in the area with $$.

Who has the (foot)balls to do it?

I'm really suprised it hasn't been. I heard that Schaus had a plan before he left to bring back football and left it with the new AD. He's still sitting on it for some reason. It had donors and plan for refurbishment of Cessna stadium and everything. I even heard they had Danny Ainge scouiting out some future head coaches.

[Shirley Schmidt]

There are plenty of people in the area with $$.

Who has the (foot)balls to do it?

The big time money guys do not want it, if they did it would be back by now.

There are fans that want it but they are the sunshine pumping rose colored glasses wearing rah rah group living in the past.

Face it, it was a loser of a program with very few highlights, from 1945 to 1986 it posted an outstanding record of 151 Wins - 248 Loses - 12 Ties with 8 winning seasons in 43 years.

Of course there were three bowl games to brag about, the Sun Bowl of 1961 resulted in a loss to the the traditional football powerhouse Villanova, the The Camiella Bowl of 1948 in which Hardin- Simmons spanked the men of wheat 49-12 and the very famous Raisin Bowl of 1947 with a 26-14 loss to powerfull Pacific.

Football at Wichita State sucked big time, it is dead.

R.I.P.

[Veritas]

As goes football at Wichita State, so goes Wichita State.

WSU does not have the athletic department leadership to navigate them through stadium renovation/rebuild, a new conference, growth.

If you're ADES, why not just sit back, keep your mouth shut, do nothing, and collect a decent pay check. Why work for it?

The only hope for WSU without football is to join some kind of a basketball focused league, and I don't see that happening with ADES at the tiller. He's got to be one of the most reticent and seemingly closed minded ADs we've seen run the WSU athletic department.

Sad times might be approaching~

[ABC]

Veritas, you base this on what?

Overall WSU has had more athletic success since they dropped football than before. Since WSU dropped football, KU and KSU dropped men's tennis.

CWS, National championships, top 25 volleyball, very successful golf and track etc.

Maybe ADES has the correct vision not to go down that rabbit hole.

Are the athletic programs in the MAC, Conf USA or other similar schools much better, or any better than WSU?

I had a WSU track coach, who was an athlete at a MAC school, rave about all of the atheltic facilities at WSU; how much better they were then all of the MAC schools.

I think there is a big trade-off, and I am becoming more convinced that WSU and WSU athletics are simply better off w/o football.

[XManCometh]

Yep, lets bring back football.

Let's do that then watch the following happen:

1) We don't contend for anything for at least 5 years while we bring the program back.

2) The fans decide it isn't fun to go watch a loser, so the team is playing for a half empty stadium a majority of the time.

3) Baseball, volleyball, track and bowling all suffer because we took funds from them to give to football.

4) Boosters stop giving to the sports listed in 3 because they focus all their attention on giving to the new football program.


And as Shirley so nicely put it:

Face it, it was a loser of a program with very few highlights, from 1945 to 1986 it posted an outstanding record of 151 Wins - 248 Loses - 12 Ties with 8 winning seasons in 43 years.

Football at Wichita State sucked big time, it is dead.

R.I.P.

WSU football will be a good idea for one, maybe two years. Then people will realize it's going to be a joke and will stop coming to the games.

WSU football? No, thanks.

[Veritas]

Veritas, you base this on what?

Overall WSU has had more athletic success since they dropped football than before. Since WSU dropped football, KU and KSU dropped men's tennis.

CWS, National championships, top 25 volleyball, very successful golf and track etc.

Maybe ADES has the correct vision not to go down that rabbit hole.

Are the athletic programs in the MAC, Conf USA or other similar schools much better, or any better than WSU?

I had a WSU track coach, who was an athlete at a MAC school, rave about all of the atheltic facilities at WSU; how much better they were then all of the MAC schools.

I think there is a big trade-off, and I am becoming more convinced that WSU and WSU athletics are simply better off w/o football.

You make fair points ABC. It's tougher for me to defend my hypothetical. But don't you agree that indicating ADES has the correct vision is also a hypothetical since none of us know exactly what vision he has for WSU?

For me, not having football has hurt the campus environment, hurt enrollment, and has hurt the overall prestige of Wichita State athletics. The Shox winning the '89 CWS probably could/would have happened regardless of football. The S16 in '06 was also achieved in earlier years with football.
IMO, WSU has not dominated the MoVal in All Sports since '86, and in fact floundered for many years until WSU hired an AD (JS) that had vision and determination to not settle for apathy. Having a great bowling, CC, Track, and even VB program does not make me want to go out and expand my WSU wardrobe. IMO, the facilities were improved becasue of ADJS and not because of the footballl/no football argument. Where exactly is all that money going that we saved from not fielding a football team?

I'd feel better, if ADES gave us his view of WSU athletics and the world of college sports for the next 2, 5, 10 years and what he's doing about it to place WSU in the best possible position.

It's a trade off actually, and thus far, I'm not seeing what benefits we've gained.

[The Mad Hatter]

Just for the record, in all likelihood the '89 national championship would not have happened if we had kept football because it all likelihood we would have dropped baseball to do so.

Why do I say so? Because Tulsa and Wichita State were in the same situation, facing serious financial problems and forced to make cuts. Tulsa chose to keep football and cut baseball. Wichita State chose to keep baseball and cut football. Both school didn't have a choice about making cuts, but they made different decisions about where to cut.

Given that we went on to win a national championship in baseball, we obviously got benefit out of keeping baseball instead of football. Whether that national championship (and other CWS appearances) are a worthwhile trade-off for football can be debated, but sacrifice had to come from somewhere. We weren't in a position to keep everything.

Whether the financial situation has changed enough in the intervening years that we could bring football back without sacrificing elsewhere can be debated (and has ad nauseum), but that was the financial situation WSU was in during the 80s.

[ABC]

Here again, Sexton is being held to a standard not expected of Schaus and others.

What was Schaus' long term vision? Renovate Koch Arena? Was that it?

We've been dominating the All-MVC sports trophy lately - - without football.

Here's more info on WSU athletics than I remember ever getting from Schaus: http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/7500...ate_of_ath.pdf

I think we are getting close to a point of either bring football back or saying we simply aren't going to do it, and to double down on everything else: build an indoor track, improve all of the facilities, increase SASO funding and a thousand other things.

I also think Conference affiliation needs to be part of this discussion.

[AndShock]

I think we are getting close to a point of either bring football back or saying we simply aren't going to do it, and to double down on everything else: build an indoor track, improve all of the facilities, increase SASO funding and a thousand other things.

I also think Conference affiliation needs to be part of this discussion.

This is really what I'm most concerned about. I just want to pick a direction. If we're going to get football back, then start the move to get football back. If football isn't an option, then come out and say it; and join a conference who has the same priorities as us.

[vancedave56]

I think we are getting close to a point of either bring football back or saying we simply aren't going to do it, and to double down on everything else: build an indoor track, improve all of the facilities, increase SASO funding and a thousand other things.

I also think Conference affiliation needs to be part of this discussion.

This is really what I'm most concerned about. I just want to pick a direction. If we're going to get football back, then start the move to get football back. If football isn't an option, then come out and say it; and join a conference who has the same priorities as us.

[Veritas]

Just for the record, in all likelihood the '89 national championship would not have happened if we had kept football because it all likelihood we would have dropped baseball to do so.
Why do I say so? Because Tulsa and Wichita State were in the same situation, facing serious financial problems and forced to make cuts. Tulsa chose to keep football and cut baseball. Wichita State chose to keep baseball and cut football. Both school didn't have a choice about making cuts, but they made different decisions about where to cut.

Given that we went on to win a national championship in baseball, we obviously got benefit out of keeping baseball instead of football. Whether that national championship (and other CWS appearances) are a worthwhile trade-off for football can be debated, but sacrifice had to come from somewhere. We weren't in a position to keep everything.

Whether the financial situation has changed enough in the intervening years that we could bring football back without sacrificing elsewhere can be debated (and has ad nauseum), but that was the financial situation WSU was in during the 80s.

Doubt it... The baseball program was highly successful. I doubt it was on the chopping block, but it makes for an emotional argument by stating that it was. Football was dropped because of:
1. MoVal football dropped a level which AD Perkins was not willing to allow WSU to do (ironic that he'd alllow it to drop all together but not allow it to drop a level). Thus, WSU would have to be an independent as was Tulsa.
2. Poor fundraising, attendance, and lethargy with the program except when they played OSU, KU, KSU, Tulsa, and other area programs.
3. Poor oversight by the WSU NCAA compliance department which led to probation and made it more difficult for AD Perkins

The sacrifice which you discuss could have been achieved by an aggressive fundraising campaign, or dropping a level as the other MoVal teams decided to do. Dropping the program all together continues to hurt the school to this day...

[Veritas]

Here again, Sexton is being held to a standard not expected of Schaus and others.

What was Schaus' long term vision? Renovate Koch Arena? Was that it?

We've been dominating the All-MVC sports trophy lately - - without football.

Here's more info on WSU athletics than I remember ever getting from Schaus: http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/7500...ate_of_ath.pdf

I think we are getting close to a point of either bring football back or saying we simply aren't going to do it, and to double down on everything else: build an indoor track, improve all of the facilities, increase SASO funding and a thousand other things.

I also think Conference affiliation needs to be part of this discussion.

Renovating HLA/Koch Arena was/is much more than ADES has accomplished. Additionally, wasn't it ADJS that made most of the current hires and retained other coaches that were on the verge of leaving.

Do you really feel more comfortable with ADES than ADJS?

I'd feel much more comfortable with ADES if I knew what direction he wants to take WSU and perhaps a lot of that deals with the football question. The website you attached is very colorful and nicely put together. I like it, but it doesn't exactly address the black/gold elephant in the room. I expected more from ADES when he was hired.
Were my expectations too high? My vision of WSU athletics to lofty? My hopes for the son of a WSU athletic legend too swollen?