Race factor in basketball fans' comparisons?

[Shocker Rocker]

For those of you who may have had comments on my post from the Men's Basketball thread on the possibility of Wessel redshirting, in which the question of whether people tend to compare players based on race, I have posted my comment again here:


Apart from race, people on this thread have seen reasons to compare Wessel and Hatch (work ethic, height, etc.) and reasons to contrast them (point guard skills, etc.). But might race not be a factor too? I'm not saying it is or isn't in this particular case. I honestly don't know.

On a more general societal level, at least some people see issues of race involved in almost every social interaction. At least some other people see it involved in almost none of them (and complain when the former group play the "race card"). My question is: If someone were to do an empirical study of all of the comparisons that people (not just those involved with ShockerNet or in this thread) make between up-and-coming and already established players on both internet fan sites and in broadcast booths (and in newspapers as well), I wonder what you would you find. Would you find that American basketball fans generally compare people with those of like races? How strong (or weak) would the tendency be, if it showed up at all? In some ways we are a much more color-blind society than at any other point in our nation's history, but in other ways racism may still with us in more subtle ways. I'm not saying that this is one of them, but it would be interesting to see if it actually is on a society-wide basis.

[SubGod22]

The only real comparisons of the two were based off of work ethic and toughness. Who else would you use to describe such things? Nobody on this Shocker team comes to mind like Hatch does. And that's a comparison that 3G has used before as well. As far as the way they play outside of that, they're nothing alike.

Someone tried to take it much farther than that.

That is all.

[Shocker Rocker]

The only real comparisons of the two were based off of work ethic and toughness. Who else would you use to describe such things? Nobody on this Shocker team comes to mind like Hatch does. And that's a comparison that 3G has used before as well. As far as the way they play outside of that, they're nothing alike.

Someone tried to take it much farther than that.

That is all.

Okay, in this case I can certainly see that, but my question was a more general one, I guess. Do fans in general make comparisons between players that are highly influenced by the players' race(s)? It does seem to me that white players may be more frequently compared with other white players, but I don't know that for sure. As someone who has dabbled in sociology, I do know that there is rarely only one factor that people consider (consciously or subconsciously). It's rarely "all about race," but it may be one of several factors that affect the way people see the world of basketball (and beyond). I'm just wondering how strong of a factor people think it is in general.

[wsushox1]

The only real comparisons of the two were based off of work ethic and toughness. Who else would you use to describe such things? Nobody on this Shocker team comes to mind like Hatch does. And that's a comparison that 3G has used before as well. As far as the way they play outside of that, they're nothing alike.

Someone tried to take it much farther than that.

That is all.

I don't think he took it to far.

I believe he stated a fact that is in the back of all of our minds. He just was brazen enough to say it.


Edit: I don't want what I said taken out of context.....what i meant was in general life. I was not meaning this particular case of Wessel. I do not agree with what he said about Wessel and Hatch.

[SubGod22]

Either he took it too far in my mind or he doesn't think Wessel has the work ethic of Hatch...

I don't normally make a lot of comparisons and if a white guy reminds me of a black guy or the other way around I'll use that.

I can't speak for the rest of the general population. But I will say if Demetric can learn to reign in his speed of play and learn to use it as Braeuer did, he could end up being quite a PG and really excel here.

[Maggie]

Sorry to be somewhat dismissive but……if you look hard enough, ruminate enough, and want it bad enough you can find, or least “justify”, nearly anything. That doesn’t mean what you have “discovered” has any particular probative value. It’s been said that a grand jury can indict a ham sandwich. Well, some people can indict a ham sandwich for being racist. There is not an issue, topic, or flavor of ice cream that some people won’t inject race into. It has become a canard.

Given everything that has happened in this country, especially over the course of the last few years, I have been increasingly lead to one conclusion: Real racism in America is dead. We had slavery, then we had Jim Crow - and now we have the occasional public utterance of a bad word (sometimes it is not even a “bad” word; but some kind of “code word”). Real racism has been reduced to de minimis levels, while charges of racism seem to increase. Interesting?

Frankly, I’ll vote for the first politician with the brass to say that “racism” should be dropped from our national dialogue. We’re a good nation, among the least racist on earth.

[wu_shizzle]

Given everything that has happened in this country, especially over the course of the last few years, I have been increasingly lead to one conclusion: Real racism in America is dead. We had slavery, then we had Jim Crow - and now we have the occasional public utterance of a bad word (sometimes it is not even a “bad” word; but some kind of “code word”). Real racism has been reduced to de minimis levels, while charges of racism seem to increase. Interesting?

When cries of racism are going out about Hallmark Card's Hoops and YoYo referencing black holes and Duncan Hines singing cupcakes racism seems to have "jumped the shark" in America.

[Aargh]

I don't like being referred to as racist. Anybody who knows me knows that's the last thing I'd be accused of. I find it appalling to think that comparing Hatch and Wessel labels someone as a racist because both players are white. That's an example of seeing race being behind and involved in EVERYTHING!

I've fought that concept in the white community my entire life.

I'm not in a position to do that in the black community, but that message needs to be spread there too.

I noticed in FH's second post he pulled out all the stereotypes - black players are undisciplined, white players have great basketball IQ - and on and on. That is simple-minded. There are white basketball players with great basketball iQ. There are black basketball players with great basketball IQ. Labelling someone by the color of their skin is juvenile and uninformed.

I'm proud to say that when the Wichita Blues Hall of Fame was created, I was one of only two white guys invited to play with the groups who played there that night. (The other one was the bass player I worked with vor about 15 years). I had played in bands with over half the people who were inducted into the Wichita Blues Hall of Fame.

I've seen the problems that exist today in booking bands with black members in them. I've seen clubs that called themselves blues clubs that would openly admit they didn't want too many bands with black members playing - it wasn't good for business. A "blues bar" with a prejudice against black musicians? You've got to be kidding me! And that wasn't isolated. It was harder to book a blues band with black members than it was to book an all-white band doing the same music.

I'm going to make the wild assumption that FacultyHub is a black guy who's convinced all white guys hate all black people and can't see past skin color.

As far as I'm concerned, I can't see skin color unless someone insists I do that. Then I generally think it's a shallow and childish thing to do.

Yeah, I'm quite the racist.

[SubGod22]

I don't like being referred to as racist. Anybody who knows me knows that's the last thing I'd be accused of. I find it appalling to think that comparing Hatch and Wessel labels someone as a racist because both players are white. That's an example of seeing race being behind and involved in EVERYTHING!

I've fought that concept in the white community my entire life.

I'm not in a position to do that in the black community, but that message needs to be spread there too.

I noticed in FH's second post he pulled out all the stereotypes - black players are undisciplined, white players have great basketball IQ - and on and on. That is simple-minded. There are white basketball players with great basketball iQ. There are black basketball players with great basketball IQ. Labelling someone by the color of their skin is juvenile and uninformed.

I'm proud to say that when the Wichita Blues Hall of Fame was created, I was one of only two white guys invited to play with the groups who played there that night. (The other one was the bass player I worked with vor about 15 years). I had played in bands with over half the people who were inducted into the Wichita Blues Hall of Fame.

I've seen the problems that exist today in booking bands with black members in them. I've seen clubs that called themselves blues clubs that would openly admit they didn't want too many bands with black members playing - it wasn't good for business. A "blues bar" with a prejudice against black musicians? You've got to be kidding me! And that wasn't isolated. It was harder to book a blues band with black members than it was to book an all-white band doing the same music.

I'm going to make the wild assumption that FacultyHub is a black guy who's convinced all white guys hate all black people and can't see past skin color.

As far as I'm concerned, I can't see skin color unless someone insists I do that. Then I generally think it's a shallow and childish thing to do.

Yeah, I'm quite the racist.

:clap: :good: :yes:

[wufan]

I don't see the comparison's as any type of racism at all. Perhaps the tendancy of most to usually compare white players to other white players and black to black is an interesting "observation" but nothing more.

Just so we are all clear that at this point in US history the country is decidely not-racist, I'll leave you with a brief story of my Russian friend and a couple of comments he made to me while at a bar in McPherson:

"I hate those stupid F***ing Uzbeckastanies!" They all have giant noses and mustaches. They are so stupid and refuse to work. Most of my friends go to their protests and throw rocks at them and the cops don't care." I have no idea why he hates people from whereever, but there is certainly some racial tension there. He also said, quite loudly, that he was suprised there were so many eggplants in the bar we were at. He used the word eggplant because he had heard that some African Americans were offended by certain other words he was taught whilst learning English in Russia...

Comparitevly, the US is doing quite well.

[ShockTalk]

I don't like being referred to as racist. Anybody who knows me knows that's the last thing I'd be accused of. I find it appalling to think that comparing Hatch and Wessel labels someone as a racist because both players are white. That's an example of seeing race being behind and involved in EVERYTHING!

I've fought that concept in the white community my entire life.

I'm not in a position to do that in the black community, but that message needs to be spread there too.

I noticed in FH's second post he pulled out all the stereotypes - black players are undisciplined, white players have great basketball IQ - and on and on. That is simple-minded. There are white basketball players with great basketball iQ. There are black basketball players with great basketball IQ. Labelling someone by the color of their skin is juvenile and uninformed.

I'm proud to say that when the Wichita Blues Hall of Fame was created, I was one of only two white guys invited to play with the groups who played there that night. (The other one was the bass player I worked with vor about 15 years). I had played in bands with over half the people who were inducted into the Wichita Blues Hall of Fame.

I've seen the problems that exist today in booking bands with black members in them. I've seen clubs that called themselves blues clubs that would openly admit they didn't want too many bands with black members playing - it wasn't good for business. A "blues bar" with a prejudice against black musicians? You've got to be kidding me! And that wasn't isolated. It was harder to book a blues band with black members than it was to book an all-white band doing the same music.

I'm going to make the wild assumption that FacultyHub is a black guy who's convinced all white guys hate all black people and can't see past skin color.

As far as I'm concerned, I can't see skin color unless someone insists I do that. Then I generally think it's a shallow and childish thing to do.

Yeah, I'm quite the racist.

:good: :good: :good: :good:

[BOBB]

I do believe it is true that white people smell like wet dogs when they come out of the rain.

It's science.