Obama Tax Pledge Up in Smoke

[SubGod22]

I'm no fan of smoking, but this does put a lot more tax strain on the not so wealthy who are more likely to smoke

[WuDrWu]

I look forward to paying thousands more in federal income tax to further subsidize the poor who just lost $350-$700 per year, to say nothing of the proposed nationalized health care that will bankrupt our children's children, for a second time.

Well done!


Tax and spend....where have I heard that before?

[RoyalShock]

It's a brilliant plan by the messiah and his disciples.

Increase the "cost of living" burden on the poor, making them even more dependent on the government to ease their "pain". The government then passes that burden on the wealthy in the form of higher taxes so that the "poor" can get even larger handouts come tax time, further fueling the class warfare the left just loves.

We're doomed.

[WuDrWu]

It's a brilliant plan by the messiah and his disciples.

Increase the "cost of living" burden on the poor, making them even more dependent on the government to ease their "pain". The government then passes that burden on the wealthy in the form of higher taxes so that the "poor" can get even larger handouts come tax time, further fueling the class warfare the left just loves.

We're doomed.

I struggle MIGHTILY trying to decide whether the left is just stupid while I try to convince myself that they have good intentions and just lousy ideas, or whether they really are that smart and evil, which also would test the boundries of my understanding their relative intelligence.

It is a conundrum.

[RoyalShock]

I think the ones doing the "leading" are that smart and evil. They've convinced the rank-and-file that it is caring and compassion.

This may get me some negative feedback, but the left is not happy with where America has been or where it is. They want America to be more like Europe. They view the Constitution with disdain. They have infiltrated our educational system from bottom to top in order expose our kids to globalistic, collectivist ideals, rather than the pricinples of individual liberty - and they are succeeding. They would like the state to take an even greater role in the raising of our kids, stripping parents of their rights (and this should be obvious, given the push to ratify the UN, rights-of-a-child crap) so they will be brainwashed into believing that the government is good, more of it is better, and it knows what is good for you better than you do.

The socio-political climate in this country will continue to deteriorate until things get so bad that people take to the streets in large numbers instead of complaining to their friends and venting on message boards (like I/we are doing right now).

Does history have any examples of free, prosperious and liberty-minded nations successfully recovering from a slide toward empire-building and collectivism? I wish I knew my history well enough to know.

I believe our founding fathers intended for the Constitution to prevent that. But now that it is viewed as little more than an archaic artifact of ideallism, I have little hope that the path we're on will change in the next two decades.

Sorry for the rant, but I had to get it out.

[Ixiah]

I could understand the tax IFF the tax was being used for smokers benefit in some way (such as research/treatment on emphasema for example). This is just robbing Peter to pay Paul.

[Maggie]

WuDrWu, Sub, & Royal: Are you guys okay today? I check in on the forum this afternoon and you both seem especially agitated for some reason. What exactly did you expect from this administration? Our President’s actions are merely a reflection of his view of the world, his education, writings and associations. Get with the program!

Don’t you know that the average American is not smart enough and certainly not properly educated enough to make rational decisions? Admit it – deep down you know this. Therefore, the average American cannot be burdened by lofty and serious issues – those issues should and need to be left to our best and brightest in Washington. They alone should be granted benevolent and far-sighted powers to direct our lives as they see fit. Now, it is of course true that these highly educated bureaucrats might occasionally slip on rather mundane questions of taxes, lobbying, and conflict of interest — but not at all in the felonious, premeditated manner of the corporate world — so it is necessary, and indeed imperative, to overlook such minor lapses for the greater good of marshalling talented and well-disposed experts into progressive government.

Can’t you see that government doesn’t do enough for the average American? The past eight years it has fought unnecessary “wars” and provided the wealthiest with untold advantages. We, well your government, have a lot of work to do. It is imperative to your future security to borrow as much money as necessary to ensure every average American lifelong entitlement. Furthermore, it is quite apparent that the method of compensation in this country arbitrarily and quite capriciously rewards some while unjustly shortchanging others. We need to put a stop to his injustice. Therefore, it is a moral imperative to raise income and payroll taxes on high earners to reach confiscatory levels so that we, well not YOU but our government, can correct the errors of an unfair market for the benefit of the average American.

Look it is important for you to understand, that the history of our country is a narrative of gender, race, and class oppression. It has very little to do with, as you might have been lead to believe, the promotion of liberty and individuals attempting to fulfill the promise of the Constitution. The United States is NOT exceptional in anyway – it is merely a nation not that different from any other. I hope this helps you understand the various victims around this world who unfortunately have had to endure endemic oppression at the hands of America. We should commence a dialogue with these States and people, making appropriate concessions and apologies along the way, in order to ensure peace in our time. You see – war, genocide, etc. are really brought on by miscommunications, misunderstandings and our own past insensitivity to world concerns. Our inspiring leader, our President, certainly has the necessary negotiation skills and charisma to discuss these delicate matters with the world. The United Nations is a perfect and well suited vehicle for this effort and should be utilized accordingly.

There is a lot more that I fear you don’t understand but I hope this starts you on the “right” path. And don’t be so glum, everything is under control and things are looking up!

[rjl]

I think it's funny that the conservative media has come to this, stooping so low as to put a negative spin on an attempt that to tries to either get people to stop smoking or foot the bill for some of the problems it incurs.

And the Shockernet GOP Tug Team just buys it hook, line, and sinker. Don't you guys have any sort of internal barometer that tells you when things are getting stretched a little too thin? Or are you willing to just go along with anything, no matter how tenuously strung together, that seems to go against Obama?

Sad.

[rayc]

WuDrWu:
I struggle MIGHTILY trying to decide whether the left is just stupid ...

rjl:
I think it's funny that the conservative media has come to this, stooping so low as to put a negative spin on an attempt that to tries to either get people to stop smoking or foot the bill for some of the problems it incurs.

And the Shockernet GOP Tug Team just buys it hook, line, and sinker. Don't you guys have any sort of internal barometer that tells you when things are getting stretched a little too thin? Or are you willing to just go along with anything, no matter how tenuously strung together, that seems to go against Obama?

I think that post pretty much answers your question WuDrWu.

[WuDrWu]

I think that post pretty much answers your question WuDrWu.

Nails it shut.


rjl, I don't even know what to say....on a list of stupid things to say, I'm fairly certain you just cracked the top 10.

[Maggie]

I think it's funny that the conservative media has come to this, stooping so low as to put a negative spin on an attempt that to tries to either get people to stop smoking or foot the bill for some of the problems it incurs.

And the Shockernet GOP Tug Team just buys it hook, line, and sinker. Don't you guys have any sort of internal barometer that tells you when things are getting stretched a little too thin? Or are you willing to just go along with anything, no matter how tenuously strung together, that seems to go against Obama?

Sad.

I think the point of this thread was not, necessary, to reflect upon the tax on tobacco products and the merits of its obvious affects. The tax on this particular product has been going up exponentially for many years. As you seem to be aware, a tax will create a disincentive and Washington has been using the tax code to attempt to socially engineer our society in many different areas and in many different ways for a long time.

I think the point was simple and actually quite narrow. The evidence does demonstrate that this tax will disproportionately affect those with lower incomes. Now it is true that President Obama’s pledge not to raise taxes on those making less than $250K per year was most often made in the context of income taxes; however, this was not always the case. Is this a big deal in the grand scheme of things? Probably not.

I think you are the one making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[ABC]

Obama said he wouldn't raise taxes on 95% of Americans.

This is a tax increase on a lot of Americans.

It is a breaking a campaign promise. Period.

[WuDrWu]

As you seem to be aware, a tax will create a disincentive and Washington has been using the tax code to attempt to socially engineer our society in many different areas and in many different ways for a long time.

You said this better than I could even try to...I quit earlier trying to say this.

I wonder if rjl and others that think (or recite) comments like this will understand also when other taxes become disincentives....somehow I doubt they will see it that way.

[RoyalShock]

I think it's funny that the conservative media has come to this, stooping so low as to put a negative spin on an attempt that to tries to either get people to stop smoking or foot the bill for some of the problems it incurs.

Ummm, no. At least the last part. The proceeds are going to children's healthcare, not taking care of the other smoker's health problems. It's a tax on the poor to help fund bigger government "for the kids"!

And the Shockernet GOP Tug Team just buys it hook, line, and sinker. Don't you guys have any sort of internal barometer that tells you when things are getting stretched a little too thin? Or are you willing to just go along with anything, no matter how tenuously strung together, that seems to go against Obama?

Again, no. The story didn't need to spin anything. I already know what I think about the left leadership, their goals and their tactics. News like this only helps to confirm it and raise my ire. It is typical for the left to underestimate their counterparts and you are doing the same thing.

Like ABC said, he's breaking another campaign promise. From the article:

To be sure, Obama's tax promises in last year's campaign were most often made in the context of income taxes. Not always.

"I can make a firm pledge," he said in Dover, N.H., on Sept. 12. "Under my plan, no family making less than $250,000 a year will see any form of tax increase. Not your income tax, not your payroll tax, not your capital gains taxes, not any of your taxes."

He repeatedly vowed "you will not see any of your taxes increase one single dime."

And for the record, while I'm a registered Republican, I am not a GOP apologist. For the past two years I've been moving more toward a libertarian and constitutional point of view.

[SubGod22]

I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the GOP.

Both parties are far far away from where the constitution sits.